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When to draw??

1067 Views 15 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Racist Infidel
Let's say the wife and I are strolling down the mall sidewalk - maybe we'll go into the next store. A group of "young people" (we're at the age where almost everyone else is "young"!!) gathered by the wall suddenly walks out in front of us like a net - four or five spread out directly in our path, possibly even trying to get behind us.

This is Arizona: I have no requirement to retreat. But that doesn't mean retreat isn't a great option!! I don't see a weapon yet. Understanding that laws vary by state and locale, how do you gauge when it's "proper" to display or draw your weapon?

Anyone have any experience here? Or pointers to where the answers might be?

Ed
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how do you gauge when it's "proper" to display or draw your weapon?
When the threat has risen to level of you fearing for your life.
You dont pull a firearm for show and tell, or as a deterrent. You pull it to use it.
Do not draw unless you are absolutely prepared to fire.
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When to draw??

Just before you shoot.
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"When to draw?" question doesn't bother me at all, because I carry my G26 with 31-rd magazine in Vertx EDC Transit Sling 2.0
This makes everything waaay different from on-body carry.
When I feel like the situation becomes sketchy, I only have to unzip my bag and get the FULL control of the pistol with LOADED chamber, WITHOUT exposing it.
Who could tell, what exactly I am about to get out of my bag: cellphone, wallet, granola bar?

In the situation you described, you need to make sure there is noone behind you. Find the wall, vehicle, billboard, etc. Then draw.
Unless they attack you before you get the cover. Then just shoot the animals without any warning.
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^^^ yep, I approve in any situation of self defense, if possible always find something to put your backside against
Also, when you are outnumbered, you don’t have to wait until the weapon is presented. They already have physical advantage, which gives you legit reason to feel threatened.
The more I read, the more I fear the courts above the confrontations!! "Just before you shoot" .... yes!! But every bullet comes with a lawyer attached, who will demand an air-tight reason why *that* bullet *had* to be fired at *that* person. And it has to convince the jury made of people convinced that guns are evil and there's never an excuse to shoot someone (unless maybe to save their own skin!)

Could it be argued that the hypothetical reasonable person would have simply offerred the purse and wallet as the toll for passing through, thus preventing a shooting? Can it be argued that with no weapon presented I should have no reason to fear? That it was all my imagination, and because I displayed my holstered weapon I am actually the instigator of any violence?

Escape is always better than fighting. I don't have much pride anyway -- I can leave it on the sidewalk in a yellow puddle as I leave. But my wife doesn't move as fast - I don't think I should be required to leave her behind.

But do I really have to let them get closer than is comfortable to justify defense?? Do I need to see a weapon before I draw mine? If it comes out, there will be the willingness to pull the trigger with effect - but if they suddenly start backing down and leaving, am I now at fault??

If I keep the purse and wallet, but lose the house to pay the lawyers .... or spend 5 to 25 behind bars .... or have nightmares every night .... is it still a good win??

Not trolling ..... just asking how y'all answered these questions for yourself. Or where I can find the answers for my locales. I know the *technicalities* are in the State Revised Statutes -- but where to find the real answers ....
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When there is a death threat, the very last thing I would worry about is what lawyers want.
Nightmares? Stop eating chili at night.
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When the threat has risen to level of you fearing for your life.
You dont pull a firearm for show and tell, or as a deterrent. You pull it to use it.
Do not draw unless you are absolutely prepared to fire.
100% agree with that!

Have a good cigar and regards
As-salāmu ʿalaykum
ARMARIN

To be over simplistic. I'll say... See Kobs signature
I WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO AND DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY ACTIONS LATER
Also, take a peek at this... Massad Ayoob "After the shot"


The thought of actually using a firearm in self defense is an extremely daunting and contradictory proposition. You need to think about your actions BUT not overthink them.
Nothing is more important than ones life. Material things (ie...purse, wallet, house) can all be replaced provided you are still alive. If you are dead none of that matters anyway.
Life is the most precious commodity we have and the one thing we can not replace if we lose it. It's why the right to self defense is so important and endowed by our creator.

You have a duty to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones. EVERTHING else is secondary.
Be prudent, wise and just in your actions but don't overthink this.
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You'll be judged by a jury of your peers. They will be instructed on a "reasonable man" standard. You'd better be well prepared to articulate why you felt like you life and limb were threatened by the person you were shooting at. And do NOT attempt to explain this to the cop when he's cuffing you up. Save it for your attorney. And make sure your attorney is a great one.

--Wag--
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"When there is a death threat" -- of course that! But when no weapons are visible (which was my original premise), how do you justify a deadly force situation?

"I will deal with the consequences later" -- What if the consequences are spending your after-retirement years as Bubba's special friend because the lawyers you didn't worry about did more to you than the perps would have?

Again, not trying to troll or create arguments -- really. But I am trying to think through the "what ifs" while I'm still at home on my couch - not on that mall sidewalk where it's too difficult to think, but even showing my gun, never mind firing it, could be the wrong decision.
You're asking questions that no one can answer for you. Every situation is different and generally very fluid. What one may deem a credible threat someone else may dismiss. YOU will need to evaluate the situation as it unfolds and decide for yourself where that line is.

There doesn't need to be a weapon shown for there to be a threat. Hands and feet are weapons and plenty of folks have been killed simply by being punched.
As Wag has pointed out. If you feel the situation rose to the level of life threatening you better be able to clearly articulate to a jury (Not the police) why you squeezed that trigger. You should also pray really hard that there was an eye witness(es) to corroborate your side of the events.

lastly and most importantly..... TRAIN. Go to your local range and take a pistol course. Become comfortable drawing your weapon from concealment. Comfortable to the point it becomes muscle memory.
As has been said you do not want to draw until you're committed to shot so you better be able to do it quickly. I think its very foolish to subscribe to the "I'll just pull it out and scare them" theory. If you draw it be ready to use it. If the threat flees....great. But dont assume that's how it's going tp go.
Also, one of the largest factors in self defense is situational awareness. Its your responsibility to be aware of your surroundings. If youre in public you should be on alert and scanning and evaluating what's going on around you. Be diligent not to put yourself in a situation where you may need to draw your gun. The group at the mall you reference..... avoid them. Walk in a store and casually browse until they move along. Dont put yourself in a position to be a victim.
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Don't worry about it, you're dead. You contemplated too long on the consequences of self defense that you ran out of time to defend yourself.
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Is Arizona a Stand Your Ground State? I'm in about the same age group as you and your wife. My fist fighting days are way behind me. Florida has a SYG law. It is always better to avoid a confrontation, but if I had six young people purposely surround us to block our path of travel and retreat, I do believe I'd have to seriously consider drawing.

Internet legal advice is worth what you pay for it, $0.00. I'd contact an attorney myself if you have questions. Many will give you a consultation without cost.

I would much rather be tried by 12 rather than carried by 6.
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