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When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. They simply can’t be everywhere. People with only alarm systems always seem to feel secure but how secure are they really? Our local PD is really great but they’re not always right down the street.
 

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Wow scary hearing a real life situation.
 

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I would say it's probably a good thing he was on the phone with 911 and of course that he was armed. It's probably much easier for the police to review the tape than interrogate the homeowner 100 times seeing if he's lying about the event. 12 minutes response time, holy @$#%!
 

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12 minutes response time, holy @$#%!
https://law.justia.com/cases/district-of-columbia/court-of-appeals/1981/79-6-3.html

Excerpt from Warren v District of Columbia (the case often sited as ruling the police have no obligation to protect you):

In the early morning hours of March 16, 1975, appellants Carolyn Warren, Joan Taliaferro, and Miriam Douglas were asleep in their rooming house at 1112 Lamont Street, N.W. Warren and Taliaferro shared a room on the third floor of the house; Douglas shared a room on the second floor with her four-year-old daughter. The women were awakened by the sound of the back door being broken down by two men later identified as Marvin Kent and James Morse. The men entered Douglas' second floor room, where Kent forced Douglas to sodomize him and Morse raped her.


Warren and Taliaferro heard Douglas' screams from the floor below. Warren telephoned the police, told the officer on duty that the house was being burglarized, and requested immediate assistance. The department employee told her to remain quiet and assured her that police assistance would be dispatched promptly. Warren's call was received at Metropolitan Police Department Headquarters at 6:23 a. m., and was recorded as a burglary in progress. At 6:26 a. m., a call was dispatched to officers on the street as a "Code 2" assignment, although calls of a crime in progress should be given priority and designated as "Code 1." Four police cruisers responded to the broadcast; three to the Lamont Street address and one to another address to investigate a possible suspect.


Meanwhile, Warren and Taliaferro crawled from their window onto an adjoining roof and waited for the police to arrive. While there, they saw one policeman drive through the alley behind their house and proceed to the front of the residence without stopping, leaning out the window, or getting out of the car to check the back entrance of the house. A second officer apparently knocked on the door in front of the residence, but left when he received no answer. The three officers departed the scene at 6:33 a. m., five minutes after they arrived.


Warren and Taliaferro crawled back inside their room. They again heard Douglas' continuing screams; again called the police; told the officer that the intruders had entered the home, and requested immediate assistance. Once again, a police officer assured them that help was on the way. This second call was received at 6:42 a. m. and recorded merely as "investigate the trouble" it was never dispatched to any police officers.


Believing the police might be in the house, Warren and Taliaferro called down to Douglas, thereby alerting Kent to their presence. Kent and Morse then forced all three women, at knifepoint, to accompany them to Kent's apartment. For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of Kent and Morse.
 

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She sent him out to find the police who were expecting gunfire with a phone in his hands... Unbelievable. Drop the phone, hands high and far apart, palms to the front, walk out... better yet, if it were me.. get to the first clear room and lay down, arms and hands widely extended.

Almost 6 full minutes from shots fired to police arrival. Good thing the guy wasn't in a state that required him to keep his guns disassembled and locked in a safe.
 

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That citation is flawed. She did not sodomize him. She performed oral sex.

I stopped reading at that point.

The case involves appeals of two (2) earlier court filings. Those original matters are more telling.

However, the gist of it is the appeals were denied:

In a 4–3 decision, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals affirmed the trial courts' dismissal of the complaints against the District of Columbia and individual members of the Metropolitan Police Department based on the public duty doctrine ruling that "the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists".

The Court thus adopted the trial court's determination that no special relationship existed between the police and appellants, and therefore no specific legal duty existed between the police and the appellants.
Other civil suits of a similar nature have been successful because the circumstances were different.

The public duty doctrine is an objective call and is applicable case-by-case.
 

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I stopped reading at that point.
The point I was making does not depend on whether BigNastyCowboy prefers Wikepida's account over Justa's. My post was in response to square target2's comment "12 minutes response time, holy @$#%!"

Whatever the law does, nor does not require, Carolyn Warren and Joan Taliaferro called 911 at 6:23 AM. Five minutes later, a police car arrived only to leave five minutes later. For 10 minutes (a bit less than square target2's holy @$#%! response time) Warren and Taliaferro listened to their roommate's screams. Can you imagine what they were thinking as they saw the cops pack up and leave?!

At 6:42 AM (about half again square target2's holy @$#%! response time), Warren and Taliaferro called again, and again were told help is on the way. Foolishly, Warren and Taliaferro believed the government employee -- and suffered the consequences for the next fourteen (14) hours. That's hours, not minutes.

Can you imagine what was going though their minds as they lost hope that the police would ever arrive?

It's enough to make square target2 say "holy @$#%!" !
 

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The point I was making does not depend on whether BigNastyCowboy prefers Wikepida's account over Justa's. My post was in response to square target2's comment "12 minutes response time, holy @$#%!"

Whatever the law does, nor does not require, Carolyn Warren and Joan Taliaferro called 911 at 6:23 AM. Five minutes later, a police car arrived only to leave five minutes later. For 10 minutes (a bit less than square target2's holy @$#%! response time) Warren and Taliaferro listened to their roommate's screams. Can you imagine what they were thinking as they saw the cops pack up and leave?!

At 6:42 AM (about half again square target2's holy @$#%! response time), Warren and Taliaferro called again, and again were told help is on the way. Foolishly, Warren and Taliaferro believed the government employee -- and suffered the consequences for the next fourteen (14) hours. That's hours, not minutes.

Can you imagine what was going though their minds as they lost hope that the police would ever arrive?

It's enough to make square target2 say "holy @$#%!" !
I'm down for a little argumentative convo. :thumbsup:

Appreciate I'm directing my remarks at the substance of your post and I'm directing nothing at you.

The guy was not sodomized by the woman. What other errors occur at that citation?

Reading the original court case (not the appellate aftermath), "Warren and Taliaferro listened to their roommate's screams" is a narrative left out by the callers.

The police were working a possible burglary in progress. There were no reports of impending loss of life or limb.

The police have a duty to protect the public but they don't have the duty to protect an individual unless they have a special relationship with that individual. Examples of that last, by way of example but not by way of limitation, is the responsibility to a person in custody. Edit: in D.C.

The appellant's version of the story was presented unverified in all details well after the initial call.

The original court found no standing regarding a civil suit and a review by appellate court upheld.
 

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The guy was not sodomized by the woman. What other errors occur at that citation?


Is another's use of a non-preferred definition enough to delegitimize every following detail?


According to my 1984 copy of Black's Law Dictionary, sodomy includes oral sex. While sodomy was repealed in DC some time ago, the non-consensual New York State legal definition appears in red in this gay oriented book site: Repeal the New York Consensual Sodomy Statute!


Maybe not all authorities agree on what constitutes sodomy, but it is incorrect to delegitimize one for using a valid definition that one does not prefer, but others do.






Reading the original court case (not the appellate aftermath), "Warren and Taliaferro listened to their roommate's screams" is a narrative left out by the callers.


According to the Wikepedia article that BigNastyCowboy cited, Warren and Taliaferro did hear Douglas screaming.






The police were working a possible burglary in progress. There were no reports of impending loss of life or limb.


The police have a duty to protect the public but they don't have the duty to protect an individual unless ...



Agreed! But that was not my point.


This thread was started by a 911 call that ended favorably after a far too long time span of 12 minutes. That far too long of a time span was described by square target2 with the expression of "holy @$#%!"


My point was, if you think 12 minutes is worth a holy @$#%! comment (square target2 does, and so do I), then think about the details of Warren v Washington DC, the case that ruled the police don't have to come at all -- even after they tell you that they are on the way.


This is a gun site. A common theme in such communities is "when seconds count, the police are minutes away", meaning, you need to protect yourself -- as the guy in the above 911 tape did, and as Warren, Taliaferro, and Douglas could not.
 

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According to my 1984 copy of Black's Law Dictionary, sodomy includes oral sex. While sodomy was repealed in DC some time ago, the non-consensual New York State legal definition appears in red in this gay oriented book site: Repeal the New York Consensual Sodomy Statute!

And now you get a taste of why laws are NOT removed from the books. If we can't get you one way we will get you another.
 

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The fault was in the 911 call, reporting the attack. if you want quick response say there is a fire or better yet report a naked pot party going on and there will be half the cops in town there in minutes. Cops love to raid naked pot parties.
 

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Ah yes Beat Off the attacker defense does not work quite as well as that 12 minute response time by the cops, Just hope the cops are NOT on the take well because well one would have to beat the off as well.
 
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