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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As someone that carries a kel-tec p32 almost daily in a pocket holster, I find the 32acp to be a superior mouse gun round over the 380acp, 25acp, and 22lr. It's significantly more accurate than the 380, it's far more powerful than the 25, and it's both more powerful and reliable than the 22lr providing one uses the correct magazine to prevent rim-lock. While I feel that the 380 is quite a bit more powerful, it doesn't reliably expand when fired from a short barrel; therefore, the 32's accuracy advantage trumps the 380's power advantage in a mouse gun IMO.

With that being said, I would take a 380 in a sub-compact over a 32 any day of the week. I own a Glock 42 in 380, and it is extremely accurate for a small handgun unlike my kel-tec P-3AT was, due to the fact that recoil is not a factor in my Glock 42. I got the Glock 42 for my wife because she tried a few sub-compact 380's and preferred them to the 9mm. She carried the Glock for a while, but eventually stole my Ruger sr-22 because she found it more enjoyable to practice with and shot it with incredible accuracy. She also liked the thumb safety. While 22lr is not ideal for a defense round, I sure wouldn't want to be on the business end of one loaded with a mag full of stingers.

Anyways, I got to thinking, what if they made a double-stack 32acp in a polymer sub-compact? Out of a 4" barrel, a hot 32acp HP would expand, the recoil would be minuscule, and capacity could easily be 15 rounds, while still keeping the gun thin enough to easily conceal. If this could be done "well" I can't imagine such a piece not being popular with recoil sensitive shooters.

Is there a market for this in your opinion?
 

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Grand Imperial Poobah
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I own one handgun in .32 ACP. Mine is a WW1 vintage Spanish pistol. Though its reasonably reliable for what it is I wouldn't consider it for defensive carry. I also own a Walther PPKS in .380 ACP still not my favorite defensive carry caliber. I much prefer .38 Special/.357 Mag and .45 Cal. revolvers or my 1911 .45 ACP
That said if I had to carry something in .32 cal I'd much prefer a 7.62X25 from a CZ 52 provided I could get defensive ammo with suitable bullets in that chambering.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If there was a market, there would already be a pistol meeting your specifications.
I both work and majored in marketing. There is know way to tell if there is truly a market for products until they actually exist for the most part. I'm just asking other shooters if they feel there is a market for such a pistol. If your statement were true, there would have been a take-down Rugger 10-22 and single stack Glocks 20 years ago. I work in phones, and believe me, we wish that we could predict what people will like.
 

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The Beretta .32 is a 7+1 configuration that I pocket carry. The .32 punches smaller holes than "real" defensive rounds would. means you either have to be accurate (crimson trace helps) or you have to send more rounds down range and rely on statistics to get the job done. Having more rounds is never a bad idea.
 

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Grand Imperial Poobah
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I both work and majored in marketing. There is know way to tell if there is truly a market for products until they actually exist for the most part. I'm just asking other shooters if they feel there is a market for such a pistol. If your statement were true, there would have been a take-down Rugger 10-22 and single stack Glocks 20 years ago. I work in phones, and believe me, we wish that we could predict what people will like.
IMHO, Nope. There are too many other comparable calibers/pistol combinations.
 
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Generally speaking if you're shooting someone with a small pocket pistol accuracy shouldn't be an issue because chances are you're going to be pretty close. Most self defense situations are relatively close. I would go with a .380 over a 32 any day of the week.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Generally speaking if you're shooting someone with a small pocket pistol accuracy shouldn't be an issue because chances are you're going to be pretty close. Most self defense situations are relatively close. I would go with a .380 over a 32 any day of the week.
The difference in accuracy between a p32 and a P-3at or LCP is pretty significant for most people in regards to follow up shots even from short distances.

I can rapidly dump a mag into a head sized target at 10ft with my p32 even without the crimson trace. Doing that with a pocket 380 is surprisingly difficult. I'm sure there are people that can do it, but I'm not one of them, and I've done quite a bit of shooting with both the p-3at and Ruger LCP.

I've heard that the the north American arms pocket 380 is pretty accurate when rapidly firing it, but it's significantly heavier and I believe it may be single action after the first shot. Not sure about that one.
 

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.32 acp works well as a up close and personal I`d opt for the double stack. Would be better than a single stack 9 mm
 

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the only double stack 32 acp i can think of is the CZ scorpion.....a semi auto machine pistol. How they avoid the problems of rim lock in a double column mag i have no idea.

i don;t think there would be a market for a double column 32 acp sub compact pocket gun. Most folks shy away from double column mag guns for pocket carry.
 

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IMO, (I'd say IMHO but then I wouldn't be commenting ;-) )The LCP sucks for shooting but is awesome for CC.

Not trying to sell you on a new SD piece but you should try the Colt XSP. It's single action and is accurate on top of it.

Also, take a look at Shooting the Bulls youtube videos on various 380 rounds. The solid fluted bullets are amazing, but I'm waiting for the local officers to start carrying it before I load up.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
IMO, (I'd say IMHO but then I wouldn't be commenting ;-) )The LCP sucks for shooting but is awesome for CC.

Not trying to sell you on a new SD piece but you should try the Colt XSP. It's single action and is accurate on top of it.

Also, take a look at Shooting the Bulls youtube videos on various 380 rounds. The solid fluted bullets are amazing, but I'm waiting for the local officers to start carrying it before I load up.
I've tried multiple mouse guns, and nothing beats the p-32 for that purpose IMO. They make pistols that size that are more accurate, but they weigh twice as much and are considerably thicker. The colt XSP is a nice piece, but it's not even in the same universe as the little plastic guns in regards to being concealable. My Glock 42 is more accurate, more reliable, and just as concealable, and I still find the p-32 to be a far superior pocket gun.
 

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"what if they made a double-stack 32acp in a polymer sub-compact? Out of a 4" barrel, a hot 32acp HP would expand, the recoil would be minuscule, and capacity could easily be 15 rounds, while still keeping the gun thin enough to easily conceal." /QUOTE]

I'm not sure I would call a 4" barrel and double stack magazine a sub-compact. But my answer to your question would have to be "no." I believe the .380 acp with today's bullet designs to be a very good round. And there are .380acp rounds developed especially for the sub-compacts or "micro" pistols. Check out the Ammo Quest for .380acp tests by this guy.

 

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Discussion Starter #14
"what if they made a double-stack 32acp in a polymer sub-compact? Out of a 4" barrel, a hot 32acp HP would expand, the recoil would be minuscule, and capacity could easily be 15 rounds, while still keeping the gun thin enough to easily conceal." /QUOTE]

I'm not sure I would call a 4" barrel and double stack magazine a sub-compact. But my answer to your question would have to be "no." I believe the .380 acp with today's bullet designs to be a very good round. And there are .380acp rounds developed especially for the sub-compacts or "micro" pistols. Check out the Ammo Quest for .380acp tests by this guy.

Why not? Sub compact pistols generally have a 3-4 inch barrel with a reduced grip frame, and many of them are double stacks. Granted, 3.5" seems to be the standard, but they do make sub compacts with 4" barrels. Pocket pistols are classified as having a barrel of 3 inches or less. I don't see the point of a 380ACP in a sub-compact. One might as well just have a 9mm at that point. The advantage of the 32acp in a sub-compact would be the fact that you could make a double stack less than an inch wide with a capacity of probably 15 rounds. What they really need to do is make a 32acp that is just a hair longer. A magnum round for autos that could push a 75 grain bullet at say1500 FPS.

I do agree that they are making some pretty good 380 rounds these days. I've shot dead pigs down in Texas with both .32 and 380 in the past, and neither would expand consistently. Heck, neither would 9mm to be honest. I remember fedrall 115 grain 9mm jHP not really expanding too well from my old CZ-75b. I can't remember the other brand we tested, but it was like night and day in regards to how much better it expanded. I want to say that it was Fiochii. It just goes to show you how important bullet design is.
 

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The 'reason' for the Seecamp and Keltec .32 pistols was size. They can be made really small, without dropping to a .25 ACP or rimfire. Both guns were well designed and well executed and a number of folks bought them. Seecamp sold out to another firm.

The biggest drawback to your idea is even with a double stack magazine - which increases the size and weight of the pistol, by the way - and a good trigger and decent sights, one still has a pistol of rather limited power. I would not purchase one, except perhaps on speculation your company would fold and in another 20 years the pistol would be collectable.

Possibly a better idea would be a small 9x19 caliber pistol, suitable for pocket carry, capable of shooting full charge 9mm Parabellum loads and - here's the catch - have a light enough recoil pulse NOT to intimidate the average shooter. (Possible, but I don't know how.)
 

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I have a 32 ACP Beretta 84 (I think)with a double stack magazine, 12 rounds capacity. It is not real small but it is nice. I think it is a trade in from some overseas police force. It is all metal. I don't feel unarmed with it and ammo is less than $20/box of 50. A hooligan shot with it would not be as healthy as before.
 

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I have a 32 ACP Beretta 84 (I think)with a double stack magazine, 12 rounds capacity. It is not real small but it is nice. I think it is a trade in from some overseas police force. It is all metal. I don't feel unarmed with it and ammo is less than $20/box of 50. A hooligan shot with it would not be as healthy as before.
A Beretta 84 is a .380 pistol. LOL
 

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Aim true !
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This thread is 4 years old!
 
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there have been a few beretta model 81's and 85's imported in the past year.....in these interesting times a lot of surplus guns are even selling out however...
 

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This thread is 4 years old!
Yes it is old. For general interest, the .32 ACP (7.65 Browning in Europe) was used by both police and military in Europe for decades. (Bond's PPK was chambered in this caliber.) Must have had some effectivity.
 
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