I'm far from being an expert but if a team wants to protect a group they have to have eyes on the entrances at all times. To not disturb the peoples inside I'd post them outside. Those sick peoples peoples usually come in AFTER the services have begun. Unless you have a bomber in a burka in your community already in, you will see them coming but if you know most peoples in there you'll be well protected.... Unless of course one goes bunkers and that no one can prepare for.
Threat response in church
My church is forming a safety team. One question has been how to coordinate and train multiple weapons-holders responding to a single threat? In a church setting, your responders may be located at various positions in the auditorium, and most likely with others around them. All of them are going to have the initial "I must do something!" response. But there's got to be some way to coordinate the effort to avoid total chaos and potential "friendly" damage. Are there any good books or videos available for this?
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Ed,
My first impression form your post is that - You maybe making it too hard.
Start with simple strategies:
1) Show any bad guys that you are prepared.
Our church has agreement with city police. We pay 2 off duty policeman and they arrive in city police vehicles.
They park both vehicles at the very first parking spot on both drives into the church.
2) They coordinate with ear phones and are in plain clothes.
With each other, the Pastor and 2 other retired officers that are church members.
Occasionally the Pastor will discuss church security with the congregation asking that after the service,
Any members of the church that carry, identify themselves to him so they will know else does.
3) The 2 officers and 1 of the retired officers position themselves near the 3 rear entrances
The other retired officer is in the choir behind the Pastor.
My first impression form your post is that - You maybe making it too hard.
Start with simple strategies:
1) Show any bad guys that you are prepared.
Our church has agreement with city police. We pay 2 off duty policeman and they arrive in city police vehicles.
They park both vehicles at the very first parking spot on both drives into the church.
2) They coordinate with ear phones and are in plain clothes.
With each other, the Pastor and 2 other retired officers that are church members.
Occasionally the Pastor will discuss church security with the congregation asking that after the service,
Any members of the church that carry, identify themselves to him so they will know else does.
3) The 2 officers and 1 of the retired officers position themselves near the 3 rear entrances
The other retired officer is in the choir behind the Pastor.
My biggest fear in church is the collateral damage. Way too many people packed so close together almost impossible to have a clear shot with no one in the background in the sanctuary.
I agree best bet is it focus on not letting the bad guys in the worship area to begin with.
I agree best bet is it focus on not letting the bad guys in the worship area to begin with.
We do have a uniformed armed guard outside. And we are instituting wanding and bag search. So we should be a hard target.
That being said, this is just another training item that you hope you will never use!
That being said, this is just another training item that you hope you will never use!
i attend services at a small church......we follow more or less a K.I.S.S. principle......
outer main door is locked 5 minutes into the Service. A chl layman sits near that door. Concealed carry is welcomed.
Everyone knows everyone at ours.....we are small and friendly......
i have no idea what the large mega churches with auditoriums do....we don't have one in this county. I would start with a small core of laymen to form a security committee and draft the initial plan on the KISS principle as a foundation.......... and then build on that with sound doable practices that will not complicate things or end up being bypassed due to apathy or complications..
the more complicated and intricate.....the more prone to failure.
outer main door is locked 5 minutes into the Service. A chl layman sits near that door. Concealed carry is welcomed.
Everyone knows everyone at ours.....we are small and friendly......
i have no idea what the large mega churches with auditoriums do....we don't have one in this county. I would start with a small core of laymen to form a security committee and draft the initial plan on the KISS principle as a foundation.......... and then build on that with sound doable practices that will not complicate things or end up being bypassed due to apathy or complications..
the more complicated and intricate.....the more prone to failure.
At some of the newer churches there's always a bunch of old guys glad handing everyone from the parking lot to the sanctuary.
Part of shepherding is not to simply guide the flock but also to protect it. Therefore the preacher should have a shotgun in the pulpit.
Another old guy would likely be willing to forego hearing the sermon and sit by the front doors with a shotgun and a mop and bucket. You have to be prepared to clean up the mess.
Alan
Part of shepherding is not to simply guide the flock but also to protect it. Therefore the preacher should have a shotgun in the pulpit.
Another old guy would likely be willing to forego hearing the sermon and sit by the front doors with a shotgun and a mop and bucket. You have to be prepared to clean up the mess.
Alan
God! Wanding and bag searches, armed guards with shotguns!
Are y'all going to church or the airport?
If it comes down to that, I will do my praying at home.
Are y'all going to church or the airport?
If it comes down to that, I will do my praying at home.
That's where I do mine...God! Wanding and bag searches, armed guards with shotguns!
Are y'all going to church or the airport?
If it comes down to that, I will do my praying at home.
But, when I do find myself in a church, I'd like my first line of defense to be something earthly in conjunction with praying a shooter finds Jesus before I have to punch his ticket.
Alan
This is where we are. We all know each other, at least by sight. You do want to be open to visitors, though. We are starting our safety team, and we do have some LEO-types involved.i attend services at a small church......we follow more or less a K.I.S.S. principle......
I would start with a small core of laymen to form a security committee and draft the initial plan on the KISS principle as a foundation.......... and then build on that with sound doable practices that will not complicate things or end up being bypassed due to apathy or complications..
the more complicated and intricate.....the more prone to failure.
Haven't you been reading the news?? It *has* come to that - at airports, churches, concerts, and shopping malls. Not to mention your average corner store, and even your own home. "It" happens - and it can happen anywhere. Sadly, that is the world we live in, and must respond to. "Render unto Caesar" - and the shooters.God! Wanding and bag searches, armed guards with shotguns!
Are y'all going to church or the airport?
If it comes down to that, I will do my praying at home
Aside from all of this ... which is still good thoughts and info ....
Does anyone know of any training in books or video that covers this type of defense?
I tried a Google search, and just got a bunch of stuff on shootings that have happened.
Does anyone know of any training in books or video that covers this type of defense?
I tried a Google search, and just got a bunch of stuff on shootings that have happened.
There are over 45,000 churches in the USA
Since 1999 there have been 18 church shootings with fatalities of 91.
There are about 330 million people in the US and 37% attend church on a regular basis
That comes out to about 122 million people.
Looking at the numbers I still think I a pretty safe in church so I am not going to go off the deep end.
I believe in personal protection and carry 99.999% of the time anywhere it is legal.
Since 1999 there have been 18 church shootings with fatalities of 91.
There are about 330 million people in the US and 37% attend church on a regular basis
That comes out to about 122 million people.
Looking at the numbers I still think I a pretty safe in church so I am not going to go off the deep end.
I believe in personal protection and carry 99.999% of the time anywhere it is legal.
That's a big (approx. $70 billion) industry!There are over 45,000 churches in the USA...
In comparison, there are almost 41,000 cinema theaters (approx. $10 billion) and slightly less than 500 casinos (approx. $40 billion) in the US.
I don't think a team trained to do this kind of work will produce a video or a book on how to do it, simply because there is no pattern to follow, just preparedness to anything that could happen. At least that's my point of view.
My money would go on veterans who have seen heavy fire and trained LEO
My money would go on veterans who have seen heavy fire and trained LEO
A shotgun is too bulky and awkward in the pulpit.At some of the newer churches there's always a bunch of old guys glad handing everyone from the parking lot to the sanctuary.
Part of shepherding is not to simply guide the flock but also to protect it. Therefore the preacher should have a shotgun in the pulpit.
Another old guy would likely be willing to forego hearing the sermon and sit by the front doors with a shotgun and a mop and bucket. You have to be prepared to clean up the mess.
Alan
Try getting together with local law enforcement, like your local sherif, and get some advice...course it is better to ask before you implement.Aside from all of this ... which is still good thoughts and info ....
Does anyone know of any training in books or video that covers this type of defense?
I tried a Google search, and just got a bunch of stuff on shootings that have happened.
The best thing for a typical church (not mega church) is good situational awareness and always be prepared to defend yourselves. That will likely vary from church to church, but simply watching who comes in the door is a big help. I recommend the Nehemiah concept (Neh 4:7-20) using modern weapons.
Actually, there are closer to 400,000 churches in America.There are over 45,000 churches in the USA
Since 1999 there have been 18 church shootings with fatalities of 91.
There are about 330 million people in the US and 37% attend church on a regular basis
That comes out to about 122 million people.
Looking at the numbers I still think I a pretty safe in church so I am not going to go off the deep end.
I believe in personal protection and carry 99.999% of the time anywhere it is legal.
An interesting side note is that most homicides in churches do not happen during services, but far more happen during the week when desperate and/or evil people go around from church to church begging or demanding money...they get angry when they do not get what they want and sometimes (all too often) violence occurs. I do not remember the exact statistics on this, but this was info from our local sheriffs concerning nationwide issues for churches. We keep the doors locked on occasions when our secretary is in the building alone, and for the most part they are locked during the week with contact info posted.
Google search: how can I protect my church from active shooterAside from all of this ... which is still good thoughts and info ....
Does anyone know of any training in books or video that covers this type of defense?
I tried a Google search, and just got a bunch of stuff on shootings that have happened.
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