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have you not considered that it is possible for opposing views to both be right? The problem I see is there are too many of us on this planet to allow indiscriminate right to do what ever we want.(pursuit) There is NOT enough resources to go around to just have everyone go it alone. for your fighting for the same piece of land for example If we are both indiscriminately pursuing everything.

I don't think one system or the other is better than the other. I think something in the middle has to be settled for Or we are going to wind up in civil war. with 10 of millions dead. where I am at the front of that line of dead regardless of who started it.

we don't share the same experiences and thus of course our views are not going to be exactly the same there is more than one way to interpret facts. because the facts are interpreted based on the experiences we been through.

Like I say 7 shots is not excessive force but the next person says it is. because our experiences differ and thus we draw completely different conclusions based on same fact. but it doesn't make one person wrong and the other right necessarily. For both are right. or both wrong or one is and the other isn't.
 

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If you have a learning disability then again, I sympathize, but that means you have room to grow and learn and try to understand the correct definitions of terms like "rights" and h ow they actually function.

For what it's worth, and I'm not trying to disparage any disabilities you may have, but with that kind of disability, it makes it difficult to give credence to your commentary.

--Wag--
WOW that was low regarding the credence . That was a perfect example of the prejudices people with disabilities face every single day. Just because I have a learning disability doesn't mean I am stupid. I just don't always use the right words that is all.

It does not mean I don't know what I am talking about.

I am guessing you used the stariotype of learning disability as meaning unable to comprehend things. Therefore unable to accurately articulate the world around us. And therefore not credible when speaking. Learning disability is a blanket term to cover all things regarding brain function that does not meet the eugenics definition of normal when it comes to their narrow definition of learning. .(Modern terminology is "medical definition")

My testing scores are through the roof in almost every area except english language. that one area pulled me down into the middle of SAT scores. remove that one category I am in top 5-10%

That was like "deaf and dumb" to simplify what I am trying to get across.

I don't hold it against you. it is an institutional level problem so people don't even realize how wrong that kind of thinking is. I am simply trying to make you aware of it. to realize there is more to things than what you and I are saying. That can be misinterpreted as trolling etc.

just because I have a learning disability does not make me less credible. it just means it will take more work to get it across in terms other people understand.
 

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Rights cannot granted by government. Rights cannot be removed by government. They may not be recognized by government via legal perversion but they continue to exist.
Just because a government does not recognize our rights as free persons does not mean they don't exist.
I agree.


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Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 23
(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 25
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

I experience this first hand which most of you don't

You don't have a right to anything unless the people around you allow it.

If the majority say you can't work in direct violation of article 23 tough luck you don't have the right to work. THus all of the other Pursuits of this and that mean nothing without the ability to pay for it.

In effect you don't have the right to live if people around you stop you from engaging in your rights. which in turn means YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS while others do have those rights.

Example your under a fallacy that you have the right to bear arms just because you want to. You only have that right based on what the people around you will allow.

Like I am not allowed because I don't posses a brick and mortar living address. If I try to exercise my right to bare arms I go to jail. just because the people around me would not allow me to have the rights.

THis is WHY it is so important to get off your bottom and educate the people on the fence. In order to get the people to accept and allow you to posses firearms. For they in the end decide what you can or can not do.

Because you refuse to recognize this your losing the war.

I recognize this fact because it is rubbed in my face every single day of my life since I was 5. Being a person with disabilities.

SO don't ever accuse me of not knowing what rights are. Your basing that on experience completely different than mine.

When your denied the rights others take for granted and get institutionalized or put in jail for trying to exercise your rights others take for granted You learn the hard way of the reality of what rights are and are not.

It does NOT matter what is or isn't written on paper in the real world where you try to engage in your rights but are forever forbidden from doing so by the people around you.

THis is WHY we have civil rights laws and ADA laws, universal declaration of human rights, etc because it was recognized that people around those deemed unworthy were denying the rights of those people stopping them from actually having any rights at all. Like the rights to "pursue" etc.

The only rights you really have are the rights other people recognizing you have.
 

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WOW that was low regarding the credence . That was a perfect example of the prejudices people with disabilities face every single day. Just because I have a learning disability doesn't mean I am stupid. I just don't always use the right words that is all.
What exactly is this disability of yours?

See the thing is... in this setting, there is not a single person here that would know you had a disability UNLESS YOU TOLD THEM.

You seem to want to blame everything that happens to you on your "disability".
 

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The treatment those with disabilities get is part of the reason we have the ADA. As well as an army of lawyers, medical professionals and activists that make a living declaring tons of people as "disabled" when they are not.
I have what some call disabilities too. OCD, ADHD, and a physical deformity since I was two. My left arm was shattered, paralyzed and grew back wrong. Loss motion, feeling and fine motor control. But I also discovered it will do things a normal arm will not do.
I raised 3 boys by myself.
I suck at math. Even very basic algebra is beyond me. But I understand business math. I was no help for my kids there. They are math whizzes. One works for a bank, one the city and one went through the Navy Nuclear Power Program. According to doctors, they would never be functioning adults. I didn't listen.
I am an expert brake mechanic, finish carpenter and have a degree in drafting. Go figure.
The thing is, I was never allowed to say "I can't do that". EVER. For any reason. The punishment was a severe ass whoopin if Mom found out. I was always told, use your disability to your advantage. Find a way.
And I did. At everything.
Since you sound like you have been living on your own for quite some time now, you appear to be ale to, and you have not posted what your disability is, why don't you try this.

Quit whining about what you CAN'T do, and focus on what you CAN do and quit blaming the rest of the world. I know a lot of folks that have disabilities and do just that.

That Universal Declaration? Nothing more than a feel good gesture. Most of the signatory Countries don't follow any of it today and it is not binding on any of them.
Our Constitution is.
No function organism, Man included, is born with a guaranteed life span or quality of life. Those have to be earned. For the most part, you get out of it what you are willing to put into it.

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Gimp, the post you put up previously is absurd.

As jjrbfshn said, turn your disabilities to your advantage.

--Wag--
 

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^^ Yup.

--Wag--
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Those rights are NOT inalienable. For there is a process in which those rights can be modified. Like through the convention of states.
The rights identified in the BOR are not inalienable in the sense that the Constitution can be amended. Amendments are never revoked or erased from the Constitution but amendments can be added that would render earlier amendments null and void. For instance, an amendment could be added that says that the 2A no longer applies, but to do that would require the approval of two thirds of the house, two thirds of the senate, and three fourths of the state legislature so it would be quite a lengthy and difficult process and quite frankly I don't see that as happening.

Anyway, until and unless that happens the Right to Keep And Bear Arms as defined in the 2A IS inalienable but all too often it is trod upon and even those who claim to be a part of the gun rights crowd are sometimes in favor of it being trod upon. For instance many people who claim to be for gun rights are in favor of the Gun Control Act of 1968 which is a clear violation of the 2A.
 
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