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Discussion Starter #1
People need to understand what the function of the 2nd Amendment, what in fact the function of the entire Bill Of Rights, truly is. I take it most of the people on this forum probably know this but there are many people in the world who don't know the true function of the BOR.

Anyway the function of the BOR is this, the BOR does not grant rights rather it identifies rights. It identifies various natural rights, various God given rights, which means such rights are granted by God or by whatever higher power you might believe in, a power that's above the government. Such rights are constants, they existed before the BOR was written and they always will exist. The government did not grant such rights the government cannot take such rights away. All too often the left likes to say that the 2A only applies to muskets since those were the weapons of the time when the 2A was written, what they fail to understand is that the 2A existed before it was written. Before muskets it applied to swords, and since the 2A is a constant and always will exist it will always apply to the weapons of the times. Today it applies to modern guns such as semi automatic handguns, semi automatic rifles and shotguns, and need I even say, fully automatic firearms. Whatever weapons exist in the future the 2A will apply to those, when such futuristic weapons come to be.

Sadly so many people don't understand the true function of the BOR, and sadly we have allowed our 2A rights to be trampled on by the government
 

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Your preaching to the choir here. This info needs to be posted on liberals message boards.
I agree. We all know the case presented in the OP. However, it has ceased to be relevant. 2A was being violated when it was signed and continues to be violated with impunity today. There are no gun "rights" left, only permissions.

I take a different view of the COTUS and the BOR. I think they were intended to be a profound vision for self-government. I don't think the founding fathers were naive enough to think it was a "one and done." They knew they could chart the path, but that succeeding generations would have to preserve it and improve on it. For a while, they did.

But eventually, the citizenry lost its way. They let the documents and the ideas go to rust. That has left us where we are now. Explain 2A all you want. It makes no difference anymore if we are not working for it and fighting for it every day. And by and large, we are not.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Your preaching to the choir here. This info needs to be posted on liberals message boards.
Arguing with them is pointless. Its up to us if we want to stop the 2A from being violated. By posting this here Im hoping to get those of us who believe in the 2A to take action. Im also hopefully weeding out people who claim to believe in the 2A but in reality don't.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I agree. We all know the case presented in the OP. However, it has ceased to be relevant. 2A was being violated when it was signed and continues to be violated with impunity today. There are no gun "rights" left, only permissions.
So you're saying that rights have become privileges, a clear violation of the 2A.

I take a different view of the COTUS and the BOR. I think they were intended to be a profound vision for self-government. I don't think the founding fathers were naive enough to think it was a "one and done." They knew they could chart the path, but that succeeding generations would have to preserve it and improve on it. For a while, they did.

But eventually, the citizenry lost its way. They let the documents and the ideas go to rust. That has left us where we are now.
Then we need to bring it back to the way it was.

Explain 2A all you want. It makes no difference anymore if we are not working for it and fighting for it every day. And by and large, we are not.
And by posting threads such as this one I hope to change that, or at least I hope to make a dent in our failure to work for and fight for the 2A.
 

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And by posting threads such as this one I hope to change that, or at least I hope to make a dent in our failure to work for and fight for the 2A.
I understand and applaud your motives. I can say as a pro-gun political activist that sadly, posting 2A missives on gun forums does not accomplish much. My recommendation is to push away from your keyboard and get out on the street where the action is. Find out how you can help your local gun rights groups. They are always in need of volunteers.
 

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But if you or I had walked down a downtown street a year ago with a loaded AR what would have happened? I appears the left fully understands 2A when it benfits pushing their agenda.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Your preaching to the choir here.
Because the choir all too often doesn't understand what the 2A is all about, even if they claim to be all for gun rights.

This info needs to be posted on liberals message boards.
Arguing with them is pointless, that's the conclusion that I've come to.

Rather its the people who are for gun rights, or the people who want to be for gun rights or the people who claim to be for gun rights, who need the figurative kick in the rear.
 

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Because the choir needs to be preached to.
And what makes you the one to do the preaching to a group like this? Your arguments are not new or stated in some novel way. They have been stated and restated more eloquently on gun forums for years. Meh.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
And what makes you the one to do the preaching to a group like this? Your arguments are not new or stated in some novel way. They have been stated and restated more eloquently on gun forums for years. Meh.
And yet many people who claim to be for the right to keep and bear arms don't understand its true purpose, and the true purpose of the entire BOR, how it doesn't grant rights but identifies rights that are granted by a higher power. At least that's my experience with my own observations on people who claim to be in the "gun crowd."

The conclusion that I've come to is that arguing with the anti 2A liberals is pointless, its like talking to a brick wall. But the thing is, we don't have to. Its up to us if we want to restore and maintain our right to keep and bear arms.
 

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And yet many people who claim to be for the right to keep and bear arms don't understand its true purpose, and the true purpose of the entire BOR, how it doesn't grant rights but identifies rights that are granted by a higher power. At least that's my experience with my own observations on people who claim to be in the "gun crowd."

The conclusion that I've come to is that arguing with the anti 2A liberals is pointless, its like talking to a brick wall. But the thing is, we don't have to. Its up to us if we want to restore and maintain our right to keep and bear arms.
Our judges and justices are all schooled in the BOR theory you are talking about, but many choose to ignore it. The same for a lot of our legislators. Historical BOR theory is not at all the problem we are facing with gun rights. The theory is being ignored, not because it is not understood, but because it doesn't fit with the narrative, so people have just chosen to disregard it. You explaining the theory to a bunch of gun owners changes nothing, nothing at all.

The fight for the RTKABA is now, in 2020, not in anything that was written in the 1770's. You seem to think you have hit on some great revelation that if gun owners would only understand it, it would change everything. You are wrong. There is no philosophical answer to the fight for gun rights. There is only hard work.

People who are really fighting for gun rights have no patience with people who only pontificate about it.
 

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The BOR, and rest of the Constitution by G-d, does not matter in the least if no one defends them. The entire corona fiasco in America only had three states, out of fifty, standing up for its rights.

There is no way that the BOR will mean anything more than ink on some old paper when these fifty "united States" in America are against the BOR 47 to 3.

Biden is bragging he will make wearing mask a federal mandate once the takes office. How many of us will refuse to abide by the federal mandate? How many others will refuse?

Up till now, the Trump administration (i.e., federal government) has been careful to only make recommendations, and yet forty seven out of fifty states either made arrest, shut down businesses, shut down public meeting places (parks, pools, etc.), shut down local governments, shut down family members' visits to hospitals and nursing homes as well as shut down churches and church group functions.

I have long wondered exactly how "they" were going to do it (i.e., take over the entire globe), and now I know.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are great, but they are only as important as We the People are willing to suffer for, and in some cases make the ultimate sacrifice for.

At this point, my suggestion to everyone that I meet who also believes in 'Liberty for all' is to do two things. Number one, get a copy of the authorized King James version and surround yourself with like minded, bible believing people.

Number two, "Keep your powder dry."

It's going to get a whole lot worse before it really gets bad.



Yours in Him,
PW
 
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At this point, my suggestion to everyone that I meet who also believes in 'Liberty for all' is to do two things. Number one, get a copy of the authorized King James version and surround yourself with like minded, bible believing people.
We have, thank heavens, separation of church and state and the constitutional right to believe and practice faith as we see fit. Prescribing a certain religious text, or version of a religious text, as our society's salvation is just another attempt to factionalize the right. It is arrogantly saying that you have it right and everyone else does not. I am religious, but I also recognize that religious faith can easily become just another form of tyranny. It has happened many times in history.

Part of "liberty for all," as well as the principles of COTUS and the BOR is the right to be free no matter what you believe.
 

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I'm in no way religious. I'm an atheist.

But I'll put my life on the line to defend your right to believe as you wish.

Sadly, all too many believers won't defend my right to not believe. Indeed, many religious believers will not defend each others' rights to believe as they wish. It's a hypocrisy I've never understood.

That said, though, I expect it's a vocal minority who won't live their own religious beliefs.

Anyhoo, before I get truly entrenched in a soapbox, the bottom line is, those of us who believe in our rights as free human beings have to join up together. Those of us lecturing each other on the details are simply missing the point entirely.

--Wag--
 

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Arguing with them is pointless. Its up to us if we want to stop the 2A from being violated. By posting this here Im hoping to get those of us who believe in the 2A to take action. Im also hopefully weeding out people who claim to believe in the 2A but in reality don't.
Ergo, what are we to do? Because shouting at then rain just gives us a sore throat and wet shirt.

Answer: Take a Noob or two shooting. Show them the Safety Rules, Fun and empowerment. Bring the 22LRs. Just have a good time. Let shooting sports speak for themselves.
 

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Ergo, what are we to do? Because shouting at then rain just gives us a sore throat and wet shirt.
My opinion as a volunteer pro-gun activist over the last several years is that we waste a lot of time worrying about the anti-gunners and the far left in general. They create an illusion that there are a lot of them, but there aren't. Recent surveys have shown somewhere in the 6-10% of the adult population range. There is probably about the same percentages of hard right and active pro-gun people. It is the 80% in the middle we have to convince. They are struggling to decide which side is the lesser of two evils. The so-called silent majority is still very real. They are who we need to convince.
 

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We have... the constitutional right...
Not only are you missing the entire point of this thread's author, you have also, unintentionally I believe, undermined everything you've written after what I've quoted immediately above. The COTUS and BOR merely codified the rights that already existed and came from our Creator. (Well, this is according to the men, also known as Founding Fathers, which authored, and or wrote, and or attested to by offering their wealth and very lives to its realization for America. A bunch of these same men signed the Declaration of Independence.

In fact, let me just post an excerpt.

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IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America.​

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
--------------------------------------------

Partner, I have lived on both sides of the religious issue. I do not care in the least what another man or woman believes if they are being unjustly, as an American, treated by the controlling powers.

I have found what works for me. Period. Just as I used to recommend what I thought to be the best drugs and drink, I know recommend the best Truth I have ever found. Maybe it's not truth for you, but it's mine, and frankly, why you'd get so torqued over my previous post totally escapes me.

Some people have a huge religious chip on their shoulder, but I do not. I honestly do not care what others think or believe, I will however continue to tell them what works for me.

No offense sir.

PW
 

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Some people have a huge religious chip on their shoulder, but I do not. I honestly do not care what others think or believe, I will however continue to tell them what works for me.
Yeah, I've encountered religious bigotry before, if that's what you call a "chip on my shoulder." I know it when I see it and it makes me sick. Arrogant self-righteousness does not help the fight for gun rights, today. It doesn't even help Christianity. It only divides us.

I also don't care what others think, feel or believe. I will continue working for gun rights regardless. I'm sick of 2A talkers and pseudo philosophers and historians. It is another thing to take the RTKABA to the streets. That is what I've been doing and will continue to do. I will waste no more time with stupid discussions like this one.

You and Gun Nerd enjoy your echo chamber. You are both Ignored.
 

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I'm in no way religious. I'm an atheist.

But I'll put my life on the line to defend your right to believe as you wish.



--Wag--
With some exceptions. As long as that religion isn't about harming people in anyway.
 
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