Siamese mauser 45/70

3605 Views 17 Replies 5 Participants Last post by TWFoutdoorsman, Sep 13, 2019

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · Sep 12, 2019

I am new here and figured to make a post to say hi. I took some bad photos the other day of my Siamese mauser, I thought you would like it,

I've had this since I was about 12, dad built it for me for a European boar hunt. The thing is amazingly accurate, I can do clover leafs at 100yards. It seems to not care the load or bullet weight,

It's a 22 inch barrel with Remington sights, one day I'd like to rust blue it, I have to make a boiling tank. and maybe do more of a safari stock or in a German style.

It's throated pretty deep I have shot 510gr solids and know the lee 500 pointed bullet fit in the chamber.

I have shot some very hot loads reaching 458wm power. But only need mild marlin loads. I liKe using imr 3031.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks .troy.

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Square target

· #2 · Sep 12, 2019

You got me hooked, big 45-70 fan here. Just curious what kind of work has to be done to increase the cartridge size that much? Obviously re barrelled but what has to be done to the bolt? is it machined to accept the larger rim or is another bolt body used? What about the magazine?

Popeye

· #3 · Sep 12, 2019 (Edited)

The Type 46 Siamese Mauser was chambered in an 7.92mm x 52 Rimmed cartridge. Very little bolt work is necessary for a .45-70 Gvt conversion and many were sporterized. That is the main reason there are so few Siamese Mausers reamining sitll in their military configuration.

TWF's rifle looks to be one of the better made conversions.

See the large rim?

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Square target

· #4 · Sep 12, 2019

Ok thanks, makes much more sense now.

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 12, 2019

square target2 said:
You got me hooked, big 45-70 fan here. Just curious what kind of work has to be done to increase the cartridge size that much? Obviously re barrelled but what has to be done to the bolt? is it machined to accept the larger rim or is another bolt body used? What about the magazine?

Ya just the barrel this one is marked with navy arms. The bolts are opened some like Popeye said. There is no work to the rails even has the original follower. These could be found pretty cheap, but I have not seen any in a few year.

Popeye I right to this is a better done one. Some are crudely done.

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 12, 2019

Popeye said:
The Type 46 Siamese Mauser was chambered in an 7.92mm x 52 Rimmed cartridge. Very little bolt work is necessary for a .45-70 Gvt conversion and many were sporterized. That is the main reason there are so few Siamese Mausers reamining sitll in their military configuration.

TWF's rifle looks to be one of the better made conversions.

See the large rim?

Thanks. One day I will get a original one to keep. My dad had a few he spoterized, most in 8mm-348ai. I do want to find a action to, I think a sister rifle in a flatter shoot round would be nice.

gvaldeg1

· #7 · Sep 12, 2019

I used to have an 1895 Marlin in 45-70. I really liked it. I also used to load it rather heavily. It was kind of punishing on the shoulder until I got a local "smith" to put a Pachmayr decelerator recoil pad on it and then it was fine.

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 12, 2019

gvaldeg1 said:
I used to have an 1895 Marlin in 45-70. I really liked it. I also used to load it rather heavily. It was kind of punishing on the shoulder until I got a local "smith" to put a Pachmayr decelerator recoil pad on it and then it was fine.

These can be loaded much hotter then the marlin. Some loads in to 458 win mag power. I have a limbsaver recoil pad witch helps but it needs to be replaced, the rubber they use brakes down and becomes sticky.

Northtidesix

· #9 · Sep 12, 2019

Welcome aboard.
Looks like you have a winner there. All of my rescues are old military parts with wood stocks. I often see Siamese Mausers on Gun Auction and Gun Broker sites. If you are looking for a flat shooter rebarrel one of those Siamese in .219 Zipper or Donadlson Wasp. The bolt face is already wide enough to handle the .30/30 Winchester rim. Brass is readily available and the dies won't cost you an arm and a leg. I did those years ago on the Siamese. My brother did an Siamese .45/70 conversion back in the late 1960's.
I believe he still has his. I do some .45/70 & .50/70 shooting with the 3031 and 4198 IMR powders. My Quigley really likes those .459/500 Lee bullets, at about 1400fps. Those things fly like a bird, very long arcs.

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 12, 2019

Northtidesix said:
Welcome aboard.
Looks like you have a winner there. All of my rescues are old military parts with wood stocks. I often see Siamese Mausers on Gun Auction and Gun Broker sites. If you are looking for a flat shooter rebarrel one of those Siamese in .219 Zipper or Donadlson Wasp. The bolt face is already wide enough to handle the .30/30 Winchester rim. Brass is readily available and the dies won't cost you an arm and a leg. I did those years ago on the Siamese. My brother did an Siamese .45/70 conversion back in the late 1960's.
I believe he still has his. I do some .45/70 & .50/70 shooting with the 3031 and 4198 IMR powders. My Quigley really likes those .459/500 Lee bullets, at about 1400fps. Those things fly like a bird, very long arcs.

I was thinking more of a deer round more likely a 7 mm maybe of the krag case. 7x57R would be good to but have to check col. I did have a 219zipper and liked it 22jet was nice to. Thanks for the welcome.

gvaldeg1

· #11 · Sep 12, 2019

TWFoutdoorsman said:
These can be loaded much hotter then the marlin. Some loads in to 458 win mag power. I have a limbsaver recoil pad witch helps but it needs to be replaced, the rubber they use brakes down and becomes sticky.

The Marin 1895 is one of the strongest lever actions ever made. When you close the action, 2 locking bars secure it like a bank vault. I used to load Speer 400 gr flat-nose to 1,900 fps or more for around 3,300 ft-lbs muzzle energy. It also produced recoil energy (in a 7 pound rifle) of around 40 ft-lbs.

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 12, 2019

gvaldeg1 said:
The Marin 1895 is one of the strongest lever actions ever made. When you close the action, 2 locking bars secure it like a bank vault. I used to load Speer 400 gr flat-nose to 1,900 fps or more for around 3,300 ft-lbs muzzle energy. It also produced recoil energy (in a 7 pound rifle) of around 40 ft-lbs.

There strong for a lever action but the mauser is much stronger. I think Marlins are safe for 40,000 cup. Large rings mausers are safe well above 60,000 cup. The Siamese is made from very good steel it was possible the best steel back then.

Northtidesix

· #13 · Sep 12, 2019

If you are looking for a deer class to build on a Siamese how about a 6.5 BRM. It is a 30/30 case necked down to 6.5mm with no other atlerations. The velocity is somewhere in the mid 2,000fps range. The only downside i see is the dies would probably have to come from some custom shop, and that ain't cheap.

gvaldeg1

· #14 · Sep 12, 2019

As well as the 45-70, I also had a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in .458 Win magnum. I used to load 500 grain bullets to 2,150 fps for over 5,100 ft-lbs muzzle energy. In the 9 pound rifle it developed about 67 ft-lbs of recoil energy. I had a Pachmayr decelerator recoil pad put on that one too. It was a real "hoot" to shoot. I used about 75 grains of H335 (about half a teaspoon) to get that.

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Northtidesix

· #15 · Sep 12, 2019

During the late 1960's a machinist/gunsmith named Walt Milander made a Russian Tokeriv semi auto .458 Win MAg. The magazine box held two rounds with on in the pipe total of three shots. I believe he oringinally made the gun for a collector named Don McCoy in El Paso, Tx. I bought that gun from McCoy in 1977. Shooting full bore .458 Win Mags was not fun. I sold it to my partner, police force, he was more into pain than I was. I have never seen another conversion of this type using that cartridge, and I think I know why. The third round would shake something round, and brown, and hairy loose. :yikes1::thumbsup:

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 12, 2019

Northtidesix said:
During the late 1960's a machinist/gunsmith named Walt Milander made a Russian Tokeriv semi auto .458 Win MAg. The magazine box held two rounds with on in the pipe total of three shots. I believe he oringinally made the gun for a collector named Don McCoy in El Paso, Tx. I bought that gun from McCoy in 1977. Shooting full bore .458 Win Mags was not fun. I sold it to my partner, police force, he was more into pain than I was. I have never seen another conversion of this type using that cartridge, and I think I know why. The third round would shake something round, and brown, and hairy loose. :yikes1::thumbsup:

My dad built a few 458 Americans they where fun and great brush guns. A tokeriv in 458wm is very cool tho. I have learned with a 350 grain of heavier bullet for deer sized game, they don't have to be going fast to kill quick. Last year I had some mz 45cal sabots given to me, so i loaded some in 45/70 cases and 15 gr trail boss. I was amazed they shot very good with I had more to play with.

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Northtidesix

· #17 · Sep 13, 2019

I built a .458 American on a BSA bolt action back it 1972. It started a love affair with the big pumpkin rollers that continues to this day. I had to sell most of my guns, divorce, back in '85. What the heck it gave me an excuse to make more.:thumbsup:

TWFoutdoorsman

Discussion Starter · #18 · Sep 13, 2019

Northtidesix said:
I built a .458 American on a BSA bolt action back it 1972. It started a love affair with the big pumpkin rollers that continues to this day. I had to sell most of my guns, divorce, back in '85. What the heck it gave me an excuse to make more.:thumbsup:

I'd like to do a 375 on a p14 one day but money is tight. I don't even have the money to Finnish my 09 argentine.

So many guys lost a lot from divorce, don't think I'll ever get married.

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