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Harley Dude
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14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
An interesting study shows that 62% of criminals shot at police and others without looking at their sights, focusing on the targets and hitting their target. A 62% effective rate at an average distance of 15 feet! Quite impressive!

The information comes from a publication called Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nations Law Enforcement Officers, from the FBI information services division.

Do you practice firing by point shooting, to be able to react quickly and decisively in an emergency?
 

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Banned
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818 Posts
I shoot my shotgun from the hip. Does that count? I have also done the same with my Security Six loaded with .38 specials and I seem to do good.
 
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I had a girlfriend who could shoot 'instinctively' - no kidding - her dad had
taught her with lots and lots of practice (Bill McCurley) was a National Champ
pistol - .45 ACP champ - in the Navy. Joannie could shoot the ears off a flea
- or at least where the flea would have them, IF it did! I'd never provoke that gal -
not for a million bucks!
:shock:
 
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Since my use for a sidearm is only for self defense, I never use the sights.

If my assailant is far enough away to need sights - I should be running away.

Doug
 

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Iron Maiden
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8,441 Posts
Doug Wilson said:
Since my use for a sidearm is only for self defense, I never use the sights.

If my assailant is far enough away to need sights - I should be running away.

Doug
Absolutely!!

This is a very interesting topic, and very thought provoking........ I believe I'm going to start practicing to shoot without using the sights 'cause that is what you're going to have to do in a self defense situation!
 

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Harley Dude
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14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I do point shooting with my small defensive pistols. Seecamp 32 and Kel-tecs. Its a waste of time to attempt to see the tiny little sights anyway. I pull in the target to about 7 yards and practice. The hits are usually pretty good with a decent group.

The laser equipped firearms have the real advantage here. Just turn on the beam and fire! No sight issues.
 
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Dethlokk said:
I wouldn't exactly call a 62% hit ratio from a distance of 15 feet impressive. That just tells me they're shooting with a slightly better than 50/50 chance of hitting relatively large targets at a relatively close range.

That's what I like about laser sighting on sidearms. No need to line up the sights, no accuracy issues... just paint a bead on the assailant's center of mass with the laser and blast away. -I
Have U ever tried those things when ur shakin...DK its hard to aim!
 

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Harley Dude
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14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, these are gunfight statistics! Criminals are hitting 62% of the time. That an important number to offer up in police training to insure that officers train in point shooting to defend themselves quickly.
 
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Point shooting is no faster than using the sights, at least for a trained shooter. Untrained people misunderstand the use of sights in defense. Sights aren't used to aim the pistol, just to confirm the alignment that the practiced body has already performed.

Anyway, you see what you need to see to get the hits the situation demands. At touching distance, you don't need to see the gun at all. At a few meters, "meat over metal" works fine. At longer ranges, you need more precise alignment.

Keep in mind that you can't hit just anywhere in the torso and expect to stop a fight. The area that allows quick stops is rather small, and hard to hit in a dynamic fight. Most point shooters I have seen make sloppy hits anywhere on the torso and call it good. But hits peripheral to the stopping zone will have little effect on a determined attacker.
 
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I would not engage an assailant with a sidearm at more than 25 feet.

I would run.

Mike, you are looking at this from the perspective of a Combat Soldier, which you should, since that's what you are.

There are huge differences between the mission of a Soldier, and the priorities(and legalities) of a civilian defending himself from a scumbag. Your rules, if I remember correctly, are to "find, fix, and destroy" the enemy. As a civilian, my rules are "don't get hurt". Your obligations as a Man are also different. Yours are to your mission, and your fellow Soldiers. Mine are to my Family.

Your tactics and tools are completely at odds with the civilian - not policemen - who is assaulted. AND THEY DAMN WELL SHOULD BE.

I respect and admire you Guys who are defending our Nation and myself (among many others), but I performed that role at one time, and now I'm way to old to do it. The Spirit's willing, but my body is not.

Mine responsibilities and obligations are to my Family.

Thank you for your profound Service.

Doug
 
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I use sights on my primary self defense Glock. They're Meprolite and I can pick them up in a split second.The Seecamp backup doesn't have sights but I do amazingly well at 15'.
 
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Doug Wilson said:
Mike, you are looking at this from the perspective of a Combat Soldier, which you should, since that's what you are.

Your tactics and tools are completely at odds with the civilian - not policemen - who is assaulted. AND THEY DAMN WELL SHOULD BE.
Where did I mention tactics at all? I only discussed shooting technique.

I am a "citizen-soldier." When I am done with this deployment I will return to my civilian life. But the vast majority of my pistol training has been on the civilian side: LFI, ASAA, Front Sight, and others.

It's all well and good to say you'd run, but saying you WILL do something assumes you are in control of the engagement. But you won't be; you attacker will choose the time, place, and means of the fight. You will only be able to react to him. Maybe running will be an option, but maybe it won't. Thus, we need to have as many options and skills as we can in order to prevail in the widest range of circumstances.

Point shooting is just one tool in the toolbox. It shouldn't be the only one.

Thank you for your profound Service.
No problem. Thanks for paying my bills! :lol:
 

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Crazy Cat Lady
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1,496 Posts
Bumping this thread because a friend of mine said he was going to practice shooting without sights.

What's up with that craziness?!
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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55,659 Posts
Bumping this thread because a friend of mine said he was going to practice shooting without sights.

What's up with that craziness?!
Without using sights.

Its called 'point shooting' or instinctive shooting'. With practice, it works and can be an asset in 'close combat' situations.

Without practice, its called 'spray and pray'.
 
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I personally don't trust it past 3-5 yards.

My practice does include this in the event I should not be able to index the sights. On paper, I'm good. In reality, I don't know. I prefer flash sight picture, indexing the sights, or full sight picture.

That said, I may be missing out on something. I do not have extensive combat experience that tells me I should practice otherwise.

Josh
 

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Crazy Cat Lady
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1,496 Posts
Without using sights.

Its called 'point shooting' or instinctive shooting'. With practice, it works and can be an asset in 'close combat' situations.

Without practice, its called 'spray and pray'.
Likely a totally dumb question, but how do you practice that?


And the person that had mentioned this to me also spoke of removing the rear sight...

I just can't get past it since staring at nothing but sights has helped me a whole lot. :lol:
 
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