[DTRSSS]

Hello,

I have a Rolling Block in .348 Winchester. .348 is stamped on the top of the receiver. It is my understanding that .348 came out in the 1930s. I believe my rifle is a military rifle. I think the last patent date was 1874 but it is a little worn on the external tang just in front of the butt wood.

I am interested in shooting it but I don't know if I should explore this. The gun is in excellent condition. I was told that it was rebarreled to .348.

Any help and guidance appreciated.

Thanks

 

[LRDGCO]

Well, you are sensible to be wary.

SAAMI Max pressure for 348 Win is 40,000 CUP. That's reasonably stiff. By comparison, the 38-55 which will have been a contemporary loading with original Remington Rolling Blocks is 30,000 CUP.

Having said that, a number of late Remington RBs were chambered in 7x57 (and I have fired one), which has a SAAMI max pressure of 46,000 CUP. So, at least some original Remington RB actions are capable of chambering the 348 Win safely.

And, by the way, I hope yours is because that is a cool and powerful cartridge.

The questions are 1) do you have an original Remington Rolling Block or a modern reproduction that has been rebarreled to 348 Win (as I am completely unaware of any repros this chambered by the factory, or; 2) do you have an original Remington Rolling Block that has been rebarreled, or rebored and rechambered to 348 Win.

If a reproduction, then it is almost certainly an Italian and will have been proofed, almost certainly to the required 40,000 CUP +. If an original Remington RB action, is it the later steel, heat treated action in which the 7x57 was chambered, or an earlier black powder RB, which really isn't suitable for 40,000 CUP pressures.

Good quality high resolution pictures of all markings, writing, numbers and symbols, including those underneath the barrel, i.e. on the underside of the barrel, as well as high res pics of the receiver and full rifle will help us to help you resolve these questions.

In the end, unless it is clearly a modern reproduction (which doesn't seem to be the case from your description), an assessment by a reputable, quality gunsmith may be required.

But let's start with pics and see if we can help.

 

[Sunosauno]

Well, you are sensible to be wary.

SAAMI Max pressure for 348 Win is 40,000 CUP. That's reasonably stiff. By comparison, the 38-55 which will have been a contemporary loading with original Remington Rolling Blocks is 30,000 CUP.

Having said that, a number of late Remington RBs were chambered in 7x57 (and I have fired one), which has a SAAMI max pressure of 46,000 CUP. So, at least some original Remington RB actions are capable of chambering the 348 Win safely.

And, by the way, I hope yours is because that is a cool and powerful cartridge.

The questions are 1) do you have an original Remington Rolling Block or a modern reproduction that has been rebarreled to 348 Win (as I am completely unaware of any repros this chambered by the factory, or; 2) do you have an original Remington Rolling Block that has been rebarreled, or rebored and rechambered to 348 Win.

If a reproduction, then it is almost certainly an Italian and will have been proofed, almost certainly to the required 40,000 CUP +. If an original Remington RB action, is it the later steel, heat treated action in which the 7x57 was chambered, or an earlier black powder RB, which really isn't suitable for 40,000 CUP pressures.

Good quality high resolution pictures of all markings, writing, numbers and symbols, including those underneath the barrel, i.e. on the underside of the barrel, as well as high res pics of the receiver and full rifle will help us to help you resolve these questions.

In the end, unless it is clearly a modern reproduction (which doesn't seem to be the case from your description), an assessment by a reputable, quality gunsmith may be required.

But let's start with pics and see if we can help.

+1

 

[gvaldeg1]

I had a rolling block in 7X57 which I bought back in the days when you could buy guns through the mail. I think that I paid about 15 bucks for it. I shot it many times and even took it deer hunting. Never had any trouble with it and I used commercial ammo. By the way: I think that it was the 1901/1902 version.

 

[DTRSSS]

I am taking some pictures. I wanted to get the s/n but I cannot get the butt stock off. I removed the screw that goes through the tangs. What is the trick to make this work? Thanks

 

[DTRSSS]

I was able to remove the butt. The serial number on the upper is R 10990 and the one on the trigger guard tang is U or J 1665. I could not find a chart to tell what year or model the are. The stamp on the barrel is HP with no space and B on the octagon part that touches the receiver. I'll post pictures later.

 

[DTRSSS]

 

[DTRSSS]

More pictures.

 

[LRDGCO]

First of all, Congratulations. That's a beauty! Looks to be in excellent condition.

I am not a Remington Rolling Block guru, so I can share some observations but nothing definitive:

That appears to be an original military barrel given that it has the integral bayonet lug. So, if the "43 348" marking on the barrel is a cartridge designation, it means the barrel has been lined and chambered 348 Win or it was a smaller bore and rebored and rechambered to 348. But, are you certain that it is in fact chambered in 348 Win or are you going solely on the "43 348" stamping on the barrel? If the latter, I don't think that's a safe assumption and a chamber cast from Cerrosafe (available from Brownells with video instruction online) is step number 1.

This is an interesting discussion on pressure and safety in RRB's on ASSRA: https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1317952094

There is not a huge amount of clarity on the question of Serial Number and dating rifles. I found this on-line as a paraphrasing from Frank De Haas:

Here is what Frank de Haas says in my copy of his book Single Shot Rifles and Actions All the large Remington Rolling BLock actions Numbers 1 Military and 1 1/2 Sporting I have seen were serial numbered in some manner usually with the number stamped on the lower tang. That same number if the rifle is all original will be usually be found stamped on the left side of the upper tang, under the breech end of the barrel, in the forearm channel and on the inside front of the butt stock. Sometimes the serial number is stamped only on the left side of the upper tang. The sporting rifles will have a caliber designation the military rifles are unmarked as far as caliber. Some Remington actions may be unmarked except for a serial number if they were the early conversions from military muskets.

As far as the lines on the top of the tang he said the early ones said:
Remington's ILION NY USA Later ones started with E. Remington and Sons ect and the later ones will be Remington Arms Co ect Early ones may have one patent date and later ones two.

So, based on these remarks attributed to De Haas, yours appears to be a mid/late No 1, 3 band rifled musket, probably from the late 1880s - early 1890s. At about that time, Remington allegedly moved to higher nickle content steel and better heat treating. But whether yours is in that category, I have no idea.

My advice is as follows:

1) do a chamber cast and find out what you have

2) Go to the Remington Society and ask the Rolling Block experts there what you have - the pictures you posted above will be super helpful REMINGTON ROLLING BLOCK IDENTIFICATION - Remington Society
3) Ultimately, if it is in fact chambered in 348 Win (which again would be very cool), I would want a reputable gunsmith to opine on structural suitability.

It looks great and is in quite good condition. Hope it turns out to be a shooter and brings you much joy. Sorry I couldn't be more definitive.

 

[DTRSSS]

I bought this at an auction and it was said that it had been rebarreled. That means to me that it has a new or not original barrel. And it was marked on the tag as .348 Win. So knowing that things can be not as they seemed, I decided to look into this further since I don't know much.

I will certainly take your advice and look into this further. I expect it will take some time.

Do you have any idea about the barrel markings? The B and HP? I thought it was an aftermarket barrel when I saw those.

I thought I read somewhere that the serial number should also be on the barrel??

Thanks

 

[LRDGCO]

It looks like an integral bayonet lug on the barrel. Am I seeing that right? If so, was it rebarreled with another military barrel that then either lined or rebored? Because there was never a military barrel in 348 Win and I can't imagine that anyone was producing custom aftermarket barrels with the bayonet lug...

As to it being marked 348 Win. We can see the "43 348" stamp on the barrel. But that doesn't convince me that it's chambered in the unlikely 348 Win. More likely by far is that this is one of the RRB made for Spain in .43 cal (11.15x58R). 10,000 were originally ordered in 1869 and more were made, as well as earlier models rebarreled in a cartridge upgrade in 1889. In any event, measure the bore at the muzzle. If it's .340 inches across the lands, that certainly would certainly indicate 348 Win. However, if it's more like .43" , then we have the Spanish black powder cartridge. For which both brass and even loaded ammo is available, btw.

As to the B and HP marks on the barrel, I'm stumped. Those could be inspector marks. No idea.

 

[DTRSSS]

I have a micro measurement tool. It is closer to .43 and not .348. So most likely a .43. There is also what looks like a stamp on the bottom of the butt. No exactly clear but it looks like a stamp. I will look into it as well. The barrel stamps are legit as I have seen other pictures of them. HP I believe is s fancy IP instead. Thanks

 

[DTRSSS]

Yes, integrated bayonet lug.

 

[DTRSSS]

It appears to be an Argentine .43 but without the markings. My reasearch indicates that the ones without the Argentine markings are very rare and only 2500 were made under contract.

 

[LRDGCO]

Cool! It's in great looking condition and 43 Spanish should be fun to shoot. Brass and does are available and even loaded BP ammunition from Buffalo Arms (pricey!). But with that cartridge, you'll want to reload. The 370 grs Lyman 439186 cast bullet is available from several places.

That should be super fun to shoot. Enjoy!

 

[Square target]

You should do a chamber casting before buying or trying to shoot any ammo. Just so happens this video might be what you have.

 

[gvaldeg1]

Here's a link for some brass.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010003311?pid=722686

 

[DTRSSS]

Thank you for all of the information. It helped direct me to the right searches to find what I needed.