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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I am at my wits end trying to get an answer on this subject so I’m hoping someone can give me a definitive answer on this subject please as there is so many different answers and opinions on this subject. I would be particularly interested in hearing from someone who actually owns one.

It relates to the Remington 7615.

I have a Remington 7615 and was wondering if 5.56mm ammunition can also be fired out of this rifle as well .223. I have heard so many differing opinions on gun forums and on the internet saying that you can and you can’t. They say 5.56mm ammunition is loaded to a significantly higher pressure than .223 Remington ammunition. Correspondingly, 5.56mm chambers are designed and built to withstand the increased pressure, while .223 Remington chambers generally are not. Additionally, .223 Remington chambers have a shorter leade (the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point where the rifling engages the bullet) with a steeper angle than 5.56mm chambers. I understand that this might be the case for normal .223 rifles however the 7615 has .223/5.56mmNato stamped on the barrel. Does this mean the 7615 is unlike normal .223 and is set up to fire both 5.56mm as well as .223?

Thank you kindly for taking the time to read my post and I someone can give me a definitive answer to this question.

Kind regards – Stu
 

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.223/5.56 NATO stamped on the barrel indicates what the gun is designed to use. Keep in mind that a chamber designed for 5.56 shoots .223 whereas a chamber for .223 is not intended to handle the increased pressures of the NATO round. The barrel stamp on your firearm indicates it is capable for both.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
.223/5.56 NATO stamped on the barrel indicates what the gun is designed to use. Keep in mind that a chamber designed for 5.56 shoots .223 whereas a chamber for .223 is not intended to handle the increased pressures of the NATO round. The barrel stamp on your firearm indicates it is capable for both.
Hi AgedWarrior,

Thank you kindly for your help. What’s your experience on this topic, is that a common understanding to have the firing capacity for both rounds on the barrel?

Cheers - Stu
 

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Stu,
I have found it most reliable to trust the stamping on the barrel. The factory stamp is pretty reliable unless the gun has been modified to accept another cartridge. But, if in factory configuration, if the barrel is marked for 5.56 NATO it is capable of handling both .223 and 5.56; I have seen barrels marked as such before. I have a .233 bolt action rifle that is specifically marked .223; it is not designed to fire 5.56 ammo. There is also what is known as a .223 Wylde that is supposedly more accurate with either .223 or 5.56. When shooting .223 in a barrel designed for 5.56, which is capable of heavier bullets that are also longer, the shorter .223 bullets have a little longer “jump” to the lands of the barrel which may sometimes be less accurate with .223. Keep in mind that both cartridges use the same size brass case, but 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures and can shoot larger bullets if the barrel has a higher twist, like 1 in 7”. Hope that helps a little!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Stu,
I have found it most reliable to trust the stamping on the barrel. The factory stamp is pretty reliable unless the gun has been modified to accept another cartridge. But, if in factory configuration, if the barrel is marked for 5.56 NATO it is capable of handling both .223 and 5.56; I have seen barrels marked as such before. I have a .233 bolt action rifle that is specifically marked .223; it is not designed to fire 5.56 ammo. There is also what is known as a .223 Wylde that is supposed to more accurate with either .223 or 5.56. When shooting .223 in a barrel designed for 5.56, which is capable of heavier bullets that are also longer, the shorter .223 bullets have a little longer “jump” to the lands of the barrel which is sometimes less accurate with .223. Keep in mind that both cartridges use the same size brass case, but 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures and can shoot larger bullets if the barrel has a higher twist, like 1 in 7”. Hope that helps a little!
Hi AgedWarrior,
Thank you for your helpful information and explanation I am very grateful for your input and advice, thank you.
Have a great day.
Cheers - Stu ��
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This topic gets beat to death..........You will be damn lucky to reach the lands in any factory rifle with any kind of factory ammo. It will be fine.
Hi Rivervalley 01311,
What do you mean by your comment? You will be damn lucky to reach the lands in any factory rifle with any kind of factory ammo.
Cheers - Stu
 

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Must be a new gun owner? Just shoot your new rifle and have some fun.
 
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It’s the same question: can you shoot .223 and 5.56 in a Remington 7615? Apparently yes you can.
 

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Additionally, .223 Remington chambers have a shorter leade (the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point where the rifling engages the bullet) with a steeper angle than 5.56mm chambers.
What I mean is this^^^^ it may be designed this way but you are still feeding both rounds from the same mag. You said your barrel is stamped 223/556.

American gun/ammo manufacturers are very aware of how stupid the general public can be.

There is no difference between 223/556 bullets they are one in the same .224.

There is no difference in the brass.

There is no difference in the reloading dies.

There is no definitive accuracy difference based on the chambering of 556, 223Wylde, and 223Rem.
 

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Yeah, maybe a new gun owner. Simply wanting to gain some knowledge that might be pretty commonplace with many here, but OP was asking a legit question. It is good to help folks learn. As the saying goes, there is no such thing as a stupid question; albeit questions can be posed as a provocation, but the OP was not doing that IMO.
 

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From Gun Digest, "The Ultimate Comparison & Review of .223 vs. 5.56"

SAMPLE:

There was no way to formulate an equation for a “universal translator” of CUP to PSI. Give it up, forget the conspiracy theories your gun club buddy tells you, just accept the new info for what it is.

The NATO spec for 5.56 has a higher “ceiling,” but it’s also measured slightly differently, and, again, there is no handy-dandy conversion.

The SAAMI method measures pressure at the middle of the case. NATO (the European measuring group is known as C.I.P.) measures at the case mouth. A CIP-spec 5.56X45, measured at the case mouth, shows a pressure of 62,000. Measured at the case middle, as SAAMI does, it shows 60,000 units of pressure.



Here we see the chips from a 5.56-marked barrel that obviously wasn’t.

.223 vs 5.56: Things Get Ugly

But the problem isn’t just pressure. That CIP pressure of 62,000 PSI? It is measured in a 5.56 chamber. If we take the same round, which shows 60,000 PSI/SAAMI (still 5,000 PSI over the .223 max) and put it into a .223 chamber, things get ugly. Really ugly, and really quickly. The pressure spike piles onto an already over-pressure round. I’ve talked to professional ballisticians, guys who use million-dollar labs to measure ammo for their ammo manufacturing bosses. (You know, those guys with the computers and transducers than can measure pressure by the thousandth of a second or finer.) They have reported some instances of 5.56 ammo in .223-chambered pressure barrels demonstrating peak pressures at or above 75,000 PSI. That is the pressure of the proof load each rifle gets tested with at the rifle maker’s, before shipping.



On a good .223 barrel, the reamer will only remove steel in the neck and throat area. It stops when it is done.

Proof loads, for those who aren’t remembering, are the deliberate, plus-30 percent loads that each rifle maker fires, once per gun, in their rifles before they ship them. They do so in the full expectation that the rifle will do just fine. Once. More is abusive, stupid and asking for trouble.


At this point, many an advocate of “there is no difference” will say “I’ve shot thousands of rounds through my AR and it hasn’t given me any problems.” I’ve worked in gun shops for too many years to accept round-counts mentioned across the counter at face value. Nothing personal guys, but the true number of rounds fired is typically a quarter to a tenth of the asserted number. I teach law enforcement patrol rifle classes in the summer, and I see how much work (and have done it myself) it takes to run 1,000 rounds through a rifle. If your buddy says “Yea, we went to the range this weekend and put a thousand rounds through each rifle,” he’s exaggerating. And if he isn’t, you do not want to borrow any of his rifles, as a thousand rounds in two days is enough to smoke the barrel.


Also, most shooters haven‘t fired enough real 5.56 ammunition to actually test their rifle. Almost all the “generic” ammo you shoot is not 5.56. Oh, it says “.223 Remington/5.56” on it, but it isn’t really 5.56. The high-volume, low-cost bulk ammunition that most of us use is not loaded right to the red line. I’ve chrono’d enough of it to know that much of it falls 100 to 200 fps short of full-book 5.56 spec. That right there is enough to make it no big deal chamber pressure-wise, because the peak pressure of the .223 load is sufficiently less than that of the 5.56 that the artificially-induced spike still falls below the pressure ceiling.



https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammunition/223-vs-5-56
 

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Yeah, maybe a new gun owner. Simply wanting to gain some knowledge that might be pretty commonplace with many here, but OP was asking a legit question. It is good to help folks learn. As the saying goes, there is no such thing as a stupid question; albeit questions can be posed as a provocation, but the OP was not doing that IMO.
He asked if he could shoot 5.56 out of his gun. It's stamped right on the barrel. I didn't say anything earlier but my kindergarten teacher would call it a stupid question. Asking a question you already know the answer to.

He also wanted to hear from someone that actually owned one. How does that make someone more knowledgeable or an authority just because you own one. He owns one.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
He asked if he could shoot 5.56 out of his gun. It's stamped right on the barrel. I didn't say anything earlier but my kindergarten teacher would call it a stupid question. Asking a question you already know the answer to.

He also wanted to hear from someone that actually owned one. How does that make someone more knowledgeable or an authority just because you own one. He owns one.
I only joined this site just this week and it astounds me at how much hostility there is on here. No question is a stupid question, that's what forums are for to get advice as well. I didn't ask a question I knew the answer to that's why I asked it, I've never fired out of the 7615 and wanted clarification as I heard 5.56mm could not be fired from this rifle, even though it was stamped on the barrel I wanted clarification and it seemed a reasonable question to ask someone who owns one if they have fired 5.56mm from their 7615. My advice has always been if you don't have anything constructive to add then don't say anything at all. You really don't help new comers in feeling welcome here by unhelpful comments and tone.
 

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".......... I heard 5.56mm could not be fired from this rifle,.........." ".......... even though it was stamped on the barrel.............. I wanted clarification......."

So, even tho' the manufacturer followed tradition and law by stamping the rifles barrel with its cartridge chambering, .......... you need more. In spite of the internet being filled to overflow with dissertations on this subject of .223 vs. 5.56mm you feel compelled to select a forum for "opinions"?

Spend time reading reloading manuals on this subject. They provide appropriate and explicit information and explanation. I know this because at least three of my manuals do this specifically.

With you having but 9 posts on this site at this time, you hardly qualify to be scolding this forum for your shortfalls in maturity or your obvious insatiable curiosity. Life is short. Buy a .30-06.

Our "talk" is over.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
".......... I heard 5.56mm could not be fired from this rifle,.........." ".......... even though it was stamped on the barrel.............. I wanted clarification......."

So, even tho' the manufacturer followed tradition and law by stamping the rifles barrel with its cartridge chambering, .......... you need more. In spite of the internet being filled to overflow with dissertations on this subject of .223 vs. 5.56mm you feel compelled to select a forum for "opinions"?

Spend time reading reloading manuals on this subject. They provide appropriate and explicit information and explanation. I know this because at least three of my manuals do this specifically.

With you having but 9 posts on this site at this time, you hardly qualify to be scolding this forum for your shortfalls in maturity or your obvious insatiable curiosity. Life is short. Buy a .30-06.

Our "talk" is over.
What are you actually talking about, scolding. Probably didn’t need to say anymore but I guess some people have to have the last say.
 

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I used to teach a course to help folks with zero gun experience learn to safely and effectively operate firearms; I mostly focused on handguns, but would work with folks regarding various rifles too. Most of them came to the course quite naive regarding guns and often misinformed by media and people who opened their mouths about subjects they knew little to nothing about. I found that spending a little time answering questions about what experienced shooters felt was common knowledge was quite helpful to equip them with truth instead of “what they had heard somewhere.” They were often misinformed and intimidated because they heard one thing and then read something else, so they leaned on my experience to sort out the truth. For folks operating firearms for the first time it can be intimidating if they are already a little intimidated because of stupid stuff someone had professed to be the gospel about guns; they are sometimes afraid of making a mistake that will injure or kill someone.

If a new gun owner seeks out advice from experienced folks and they respond with arrogant and condescending attitude and they get insulted for asking what seems to them a sensible question they might not ever seek experienced help again; and this could cause a costly error which in turn can possibly become a black mark against gun ownership; you can count on media using it against the 2nd amendment. Arrogance and condescension are not the ways to welcome people into the world of firearms safety and use, nor are they very helpful welcoming someone to NGF.

It is not that hard to see that Halotop was seeking information from what he hoped was experienced people, and when he saw another post sought answers there too because they seemed possibly to contradict what he was hearing, regardless how old the thread. It is not necessary and quite unfriendly to treat every newcomer as a troll or just stupid. Trolls will expose themselves soon enough and can be dealt with accordingly then. Just because someone has not yet acquired your years of knowledge and experience does not make them stupid and is no reason to be condescending; help them and gain a friend and a new gun enthusiast. :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I used to teach a course to help folks with zero gun experience learn to safely and effectively operate firearms; I mostly focused on handguns, but would work with folks regarding various rifles too. Most of them came to the course quite naive regarding guns and often misinformed by media and people who opened their mouths about subjects they knew little to nothing about. I found that spending a little time answering questions about what experienced shooters felt was common knowledge was quite helpful to equip them with truth instead of “what they had heard somewhere.” They were often misinformed and intimidated because they heard one thing and then read something else, so they leaned on my experience to sort out the truth. For folks operating firearms for the first time it can be intimidating if they are already a little intimidated because of stupid stuff someone had professed to be the gospel about guns; they are sometimes afraid of making a mistake that will injure or kill someone.

If a new gun owner seeks out advice from experienced folks and they respond with arrogant and condescending attitude and they get insulted for asking what seems to them a sensible question they might not ever seek experienced help again; and this could cause a costly error which in turn can possibly become a black mark against gun ownership; you can count on media using it against the 2nd amendment. Arrogance and condescension are not the ways to welcome people into the world of firearms safety and use, nor are they very helpful welcoming someone to NGF.

It is not that hard to see that Halotop was seeking information from what he hoped was experienced people, and when he saw another post sought answers there too because they seemed possibly to contradict what he was hearing, regardless how old the thread. It is not necessary and quite unfriendly to treat every newcomer as a troll or just stupid. Trolls will expose themselves soon enough and can be dealt with accordingly then. Just because someone has not yet acquired your years of knowledge and experience does not make them stupid and is no reason to be condescending; help them and gain a friend and a new gun enthusiast. :smile:
Hi AgedWarrior thank you for your wise and encouraging words, yes that’s all all I was ever after was some information and advice. Your kind words have restored my faith in NGF as I was going to leave thinking this was a mistake. Thanks again for your contribution and for touching on those areas that I felt people just made a joke of or were sarcastic. Have a great day mate. Cheers - Stu :smile5:
 
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