[Rmbha]

This is the first time I've been here and I do not have experience with guns. I may not be posting in the right place (I'm a chick so cut me some slack!). I have a question that is extremely important for me to find an answer to about a Raven Arms .25 caliber, automatic, chrome with a rubber Pachmayr slip on grip, 1996....... I need to know how easy it would be for the safety to accidentally be turned off. I have a picture but need to talk to someone who has handled one. I am going to a gun show soon to see if someone is familiar with it.

Please answer if you know about this gun. It is very important.

 

[Northtidesix]

Welcome aboard. The Raven is not known for safety, reliability, or accuracy. The safety is an iffy proposition at best. To be safe with that pistol please do not carry it with a round in the chamber. The safety if it works at all, is easily disengaged.
I would strongly recommend that your check out the local firing ranges and get with a NRA firearms instructor? I am not being critical here. I specify NRA instructors because they have a lesson plan to follow. Most folks don't know beans from bluebonnets about guns. A certified instructor is trained in the use,care, and cleaning of firearms.

 

[Rmbha]

Oh, I've studied enough to know not to choose this gun if I ever own one. I'm asking because I've heard someone say "The safety came off somehow", referring to this gun. I just haven't read anything that says a gun's safety can do that. All I've read is that it can "malfunction".

 

[Mad Scientist]

With the utmost respect, I suggest you take an NRA-approved safety course and strongly consider buying a different firearm for yourself. If you need guidance in this area, we can offer suggestions and point you in the right direction. As North stated the Raven Arms isn't a firearm for personal protection or otherwise.

 

[Rmbha]

OK. I'll have to explain.....(I'm not good at forums. I always confuse people!). A person I know "accidentally" shot someone. They claim the "safety came off somehow". Can this happen with this gun and model? Or is it unlikely? It had a rubber slip on grip. Wouldn't that make it less likely for your hand to slip and accidentally hit the safety?

 

[Mad Scientist]

OK. I'll have to explain.....(I'm not good at forums. I always confuse people!). A person I know "accidentally" shot someone. They claim the "safety came off somehow". Can this happen with this gun and model? Or is it unlikely?

The three basic general rules of safe gun handling.
1. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction; never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot.

2. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot.
3. Keep the action open and the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.


We have the above rules for handling a firearm because guns are like any other machine, they can break or fail to function property if not properly maintained and serviced. The person you know violated the first two rules, they can not blame the firearm for their stupidity. It doesn't matter if the "safety came off somehow", they are responsible for what happened due to their failure to properly and safety handle a firearm.

To directly answer your question, YES a safety can be unintentionally turned off. If the person you know hadn't violated the rules of safety, the gun wouldn't (most likely) have discharged. And if it did somehow discharge without them touching the trigger, no one would have been hurt if they followed rules 1 and 3.

 

[Rmbha]

Exactly.....The problem is-I don't believe the person. Do you think it's convenient that the entry wound was "just above the center of the eyes in the forehead", which would require close range with a Raven, and the safety "accidentally" came off? Or am I just crazy? Who takes a gun out of a holster, concealed behind their back, in their pants, under a shirt, and aims that close with a round in the chamber "goofing off" but then has the sense to immediately put the safety back on, while running away, so it "wouldn't happen again"? If that's the case, then he obviously had some awareness of safety but yet was dumb enough to aim it at the forehead for fun? The only explanation I can come up with for that is in one word.

 

[therewolf]

Welcome to the NGF, from the swamp north of The Swamp.

Short answer-YES, I handle firearms every day, and IME, I check and reset safeties

which "slip off" on an average of about 3 a week.

If the person with the gun shot somebody, it's not because of the safety, it's because that

person handled the gun VERY improperly. You NEVER rely on a safety. I would consider this individual's

motives, before the gun's shortcomings.

All that said, at this point, the particular firearm's serial # is way TMI, at this point.

 

[Rmbha]

O crap! I didn't mean to put that! I just saw it! It's off. Would a 1996 have a slide or push up safety? Thank you for your help. It's very hard when you encounter something you know nothing about. I've studied it in depth but don't know which info is accurate. This is kind of a big deal.

 

[therewolf]

You have to understand, primarily, that this is a low quality gun, with an underpowered round.

Not only can you not trust the safety, at anything but close self-defense, you can't hit the side

of a barn from the inside with this thing. The safety is just another low-quality feature of this

unit.The difference in a slide, or a push-up safety is more of a manufacturing anomaly, than

a quality control issue. Either safety can't be trusted. The bottom line is with either safety, I would

not carry this gun with a round loaded in the chamber.

 

[Rmbha]

This situation I've gotten myself into is not the "safest" situation! I need something for protection but I'm afraid because I have small children. What should I do? A taser isn't going to keep me from getting shot! If I do get a gun, what do you recommend with children?

 

[therewolf]

A taser might even be more dangerous around children than a gun.

You either need some serious training, or to get yourself out of the bad situation.

Gun Safety around a group of small children is very difficult. Consider alternatives,

such as improvised defense, or seek professional help. Small children have a magic talent for

finding loaded guns.

 

[Rmbha]

That's what scares me. I'd rather risk myself than them. I'll just lock the door!

 

[Mad Scientist]

This situation I've gotten myself into is not the "safest" situation! I need something for protection but I'm afraid because I have small children. What should I do? A taser isn't going to keep me from getting shot! If I do get a gun, what do you recommend with children?

How old are your kids and how much can you afford?

If possible, I'd suggest a Bersa Thunder 380, which is in the $325 ballpark. It's a great reasonably priced pistol. We may have other suggestions, depending on your budget.

If your kids are old enough, they should be caught what a gun is capable of doing. The NRA has a wonderful Eddie Eagle class for kids that talks about gun safety and what to do whenever they find a gun. You'll also need some sort of lockbox, but we can get to that when we figure out which firearm you buy.

 

[Rmbha]

They are 11 and 3. I know I have to have a box, I've looked into trainers and permit. I'm going to the gun show next weekend. I don't like the idea of carrying it in a purse. I could probably do up to $400. I can't get out of the situation and it's going to get worse. I'm having a full alarm system put on my car.

 

[Northtidesix]

I have read all of the post on this thread.
In answer to your question "can the slip off accidentally?" Yes it can. BUT that has nothing to do with the fact that the person doing the shooting was criminally liable for shooting another person. The safety is not the issue here the fact that someone had a firearm and pointed it another person and fired a bullet into their head is the issue.
I agree with the Bersa .380 Thunderer. It is very concealable and will do serious damage to a human target. It is not a big time man stopper. Very few hand guns can rationally make that claim. None of them are in your $400 range.
The most important thing is to make sure you get proper training with what ever pistol you select. Be sure to take the children with you you do not want to make the gun a mystery.
I hope you have taken the proper legal steps to ensure the safety of you and your children. Every city in the country has some sort of organization to provide shelter, protection, and legal advise Pro Bono.
Stay in touch with us.

 

[Rmbha]

The safety isn't the problem. I think he turned it off himself. That's why I'm asking how easy it turns off.

My lawyer is aware and the kids are not at risk....this is their father. He would only come after me if it got to that point.

 

[Rmbha]

I didn't mean to get into all of this but it is hard not to explain a little. He was convicted-but I believe of the wrong thing and not enough. I believe, with good reason, that he turned that safety off and pointed it and pulled the trigger. I stumbled across all of this.

One of the reasons I AM pursuing this is to protect my children because if I die of any reason he will get them.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Mad Scientist]

If he was convicted, how long is his sentence? I take it, you have sole custody? And finally, are you in a position to move and start a new life in another state?

 

[Rmbha]

He was convicted of reckless homicide and illegal possession of a firearm. He was given 2 yrs that included a work and school release program, house arrest, and probation. I have full custody-paid several thousand to a big lawyer to make sure I got it. I would gladly move but I feel certain he would do something to stop me.

The boy did die.