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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
AFP
24 September 2021


A U.S. power company (PG&E) whose cables sparked a devastating California fire that killed four people has been charged with manslaughter, prosecutors said Friday.

More than 56,000 acres (22,000 hectares) were set ablaze when power lines operated by Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) came into contact with a tree in September 2020, igniting what became known as the Zogg Fire.

Prosecutors said the company knew the tree in Shasta County was dangerously close to a powerline and should have removed it three years earlier.

"We have sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Pacific Gas and Electric Company is criminally liable for their reckless ignition of the Zogg Fire and the deaths and destruction that it caused," the county's district attorney Stephanie Bridgett said.

"Their failure was reckless and was criminally negligent, and it resulted in the death of four people" including an eight-year-old girl.

The county also levelled charges over three other fires.

PG&E is one of California's biggest power companies, and is responsible for maintaining large swathes of the state's creaking electricity infrastructure.

That includes keeping trees away from powerlines, especially at a time when the region is suffering through a prolonged drought that has left its forests dry and vulnerable to wildfires.

The company on Friday denied it was criminally culpable for the blaze.

"We've accepted (the fire department's) determination, reached earlier this year, that a tree contacted our electric line and started the Zogg Fire. But we did not commit a crime," said chief executive Patti Poppe.

"We've already resolved many victim claims arising from the Zogg Fire... and we are working hard to resolve the remaining claims."

PG&E has already been found guilty of causing the Camp Fire in 2018, the deadliest fire in recent California history.

That fire virtually wiped the small town of Paradise off the map and killed 86 people.

This year the company said it would bury 10,000 miles (16,000 kilometers) of powerlines in an effort to keep them away from vegetation.

The western United States is suffering through yet another terrible wildfire season.




 
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While I have NOT followed the topic closely (Cali wildfires and the root causes)... I would have thought the State would maintain some culpability due to their severely restrictive environmental laws (which I hear prevent clearing brush and trees in many cases).

Of course, it is California and the State can do no wrong.
 

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Build a wall around the place and what happens. I just don't care about those nutcases. I can only care about so many people it seems and I'm a "people person". Really.
 

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Salmon Slayer
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While I have NOT followed the topic closely (Cali wildfires and the root causes)... I would have thought the State would maintain some culpability due to their severely restrictive environmental laws (which I hear prevent clearing brush and trees in many cases).

Of course, it is California and the State can do no wrong.
Indeed, politicians should be charged with manslaughter but we all have been programmed to believe that they are not to be held accountable for anything they touch (screw up).🤬
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
While I have NOT followed the topic closely (Cali wildfires and the root causes)... I would have thought the State would maintain some culpability due to their severely restrictive environmental laws (which I hear prevent clearing brush and trees in many cases).
As the judge said to PG&E when they used this argument, "Yes, the state of California provided the conditions but YOU started the fire".
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Build a wall around the place and what happens, happens. I just don't care about those nutcases.
Using this logic, the entire West coast AND the entire East coast AND every democrat controlled city should be walled off. Its a recipie for disaster that would warm Bill Gates's heart (population decrease).
 

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Salmon Slayer
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As the judge said to PG&E when they used this argument, "Yes, the state of California provided the conditions but YOU started the fire".
:oops::oops::oops:
 

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Using this logic, the entire West coast AND the entire East coast AND every democrat controlled city should be walled off. Its a recipie for disaster that would warm Bill Gates's heart (population decrease).
Point made but I was just referring to the West Coast. I'm a very reasonable man. Give them at least a two week notice so the good people can be screened then leave. They should sign a card saying they will never be stupid then, if they do something stupid, back over the wall they go. Cali is going to fall off into the ocean soon anyway so build a cheap wall. Easy Peasy....
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
IF the San Andreas fault lets go with a 9.0 earthquake AND every other fault in California (there are thousands) ruptures at the same time Californi will remain part of, and connected to, North America. It is possible, but not probable, that the Central Valley will flood with seawater.
 

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"Cali is going to fall off into the ocean soon anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,"

Sooooo boring. Never said before, right?

Kalifornia will get its "comeuppance" in due time, but it will almost have to die to get better. If you aren't there when this happens, lucky you. If you don't live in Kalifornia, consider yourself fortunate and just be amused by the object lessons it will serve up. Otherwise, enjoy yer "perfectly managed life".

There's huge differences between paying penalties for bad and insane fiscal, political and legal policies - all man-made, and suffering whatever Mother Nature and her earth-quakes will dish out.

I hate what Kalifornia has become as a state. All 3 of our children and 3 grandchildren live there. We have skin in that game.
 

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Last Stand on Earth
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PG&E has already been found guilty of causing the Camp Fire in 2018, the deadliest fire in recent California history.
So who went to jail?

I just looked at CA statues for voluntary and involuntary manslaughter and they both carry min prison sentences. So, if no one went to jail then no one was actually held responsible.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So who went to jail?

I just looked at CA statues for voluntary and involuntary manslaughter and they both carry min prison sentences. So, if no one went to jail then no one was actually held responsible.
How about that!
 

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As the judge said to PG&E when they used this argument, "Yes, the state of California provided the conditions but YOU started the fire".
Power companies produce a product that can be dangerous if used improperly but when the user ignores the safe operating procedures then they (the user) should be held accountable for their own foolish acts. Do we support blaming gun companies for criminals killing people with guns, of course not, because we know that the criminal did something with the product that the manufacturer never intended. It's a matter of taking responsibility for your own acts. In this case the State should take responsibility for it's own inaction.

If you want to solve a problem you go to the root cause, not the symptoms. The root cause is the forests not being properly managed, the symptom is that there are more out of control fires.

To start a fire requires air, fuel, and an ignition source.
To prevent a fire we need to eliminate one or more of those components.
Obviously we can't eliminate air and it's more logical to manage the vegetation around the power lines than it is to eliminate the power lines.
The root cause is that the State and Federal Forest managers have not taken any action to manage the forests properly or allow the power companies to manage the vegetation properly. The conclusion that the power company is responsible isn't valid. If the user (the State) had used the product in line with the manufacturer's recommended safety procedures there would have been no fires caused by power lines; no fuel to burn then there wouldn't have been any fire, it's as simple as that.

If I were managing PG&E, taking the judges decision in to account, I'd make the decision to remove all of our power lines from forested areas. I'd bet that when all the expensive ski resorts loose power there would be a change of attitude.
 

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Last Stand on Earth
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4,281 Posts
Power companies produce a product that can be dangerous if used improperly but when the user ignores the safe operating procedures then they (the user) should be held accountable for their own foolish acts. Do we support blaming gun companies for criminals killing people with guns, of course not, because we know that the criminal did something with the product that the manufacturer never intended. It's a matter of taking responsibility for your own acts. In this case the State should take responsibility for it's own inaction.

If you want to solve a problem you go to the root cause, not the symptoms. The root cause is the forests not being properly managed, the symptom is that there are more out of control fires.

To start a fire requires air, fuel, and an ignition source.
To prevent a fire we need to eliminate one or more of those components.
Obviously we can't eliminate air and it's more logical to manage the vegetation around the power lines than it is to eliminate the power lines.
The root cause is that the State and Federal Forest managers have not taken any action to manage the forests properly or allow the power companies to manage the vegetation properly. The conclusion that the power company is responsible isn't valid. If the user (the State) had used the product in line with the manufacturer's recommended safety procedures there would have been no fires caused by power lines; no fuel to burn then there wouldn't have been any fire, it's as simple as that.

If I were managing PG&E, taking the judges decision in to account, I'd make the decision to remove all of our power lines from forested areas. I'd bet that when all the expensive ski resorts loose power there would be a change of attitude.
So, let me get this straight. Power companies obtain permanent easements across both public and private land to install their product, which they in turn make a profit by charging you to use but they aren’t required to maintain that product on those permanent easements they are profiting from?

I am in no way saying every time the wind takes down a power line they should be liable for damage but if someone calls you and says there is a problem, you are now responsible if you ignore the problem.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
PG&E was using equipment manufactured in 1909, first installed in 1911 and not inspected since 1968. This equipment finally failed and started the Camp fire.
 
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