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Discussion Starter #1
Well, the new open carry law starts Jan 1 in Texas. What the lawmakers did was to essentially remove the word "concealed" from the existing law. So concealed licensees will be able to open carry.

Myself, I think OC is more trouble that it's worth. Yeah, I understand our constitution and all, but in our modern era, I think that OC is a bad idea even though I do support that right, if someone wants to.

I know that there are lots of folks who live in rural areas who may be OC and go to the local store for a quick trip and so on, an isolated general store out in the sticks. Stuff like that. But hey, I live smack in the middle of Houston.

Now when I see someone OC after the first of the year, what will be my reaction? I'll stare and wonder if he's a plainclothes deputy or something first off, then I'll realize that oh, it's a guy with a license who's decided to OC.

But I've grown up around guns, have my concealed license and was in the 2nd class ever in the Houston area when these first were legal. And yet even though I am very "easy" around guns, I won't be able to do anything else but stare at first, and that's only natural, seeing some dude walk into Kroger or Walgreen with a pistol on his hip.

Thing is, if I might stare and I'm at ease with guns, how will the average dodo citizen react? Will they point and yell or maybe call the cops?

What I really think is that the cops are gonna have a huge influx of 911 calls from "scared" citizens. Let's face it -- people who are not familiar with guns are often frightened to see them. I know that we "gun nuts" aren't that way but there are many others out there who are the opposite of us and will panic when they see a gun. And call 911.

What the heck will the cops do? What will the 911 operators do? I hope someone has sat down and thought this out. And not only the average non-gun citizen, but there are antigun activists who are planning to make a fuss every time they see an OC. What if the 911 operators are deluged? How will they handle it?

Your thoughts? And yeah, I know the "stock" answer is "let 'em be scared" but in reality, a bunch of idiots calling 911, actually scared or just trying to cause trouble, either way, can really create a bunch of false alarms.

"I see this man and he's in Walgreen right now, he just went in, and he's got a gun! EEEK!"

What the heck can the 911 people do? They can't ignore the call -- it MIGHT be a robbery, huh? So they'll have to dispatch a cop to the scene.

At least that's the way I see it, maybe things will calm down after a few months, but hey, there are so many busybodys now, people who will call 911 if they see kids riding in a car without seat belts and so on.

What say you?
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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"I see this man and he's in Walgreen right now, he just went in, and he's got a gun! EEEK!"

What the heck can the 911 people do?
They can learn the seriousness of the event and the mental stability of the caller.

Has he shot (at) anyone?

Does he have the gun in his hand?

Is his gun holstered?
 

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OC has its advantages like burglar repellent (you dont want to rob a guy who obviously has a gun with him, do you?) but then there are all these internet dipshits (pardon the term) that make stupid claims like "if I see someone OC an assault gun clipazine I'm going to mace them and take their gun then call the cops or shoot them or whatever because they're baby killing bigot terrorists." or some such nonsense. Personally, if I were in an area with people like that I would prefer conceal carry, but to each their own. So, Overall id say OCs pros outweigh the cons, but there's always going to be that one guy who freaks out when someone even thinks the word "gun".
 

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They'll do the same thing that all the other states do that currently have open carry. Personally, I disagree with having to have any sort of license to carry a gun. It is an infringement. But legislators and legislatures rarely ask me my opinion on that or any other subject, in fact they have never asked me, and when I have offered my unsolicited opinion, I doubt they give it any further thought.

For those waiting for the bloodbath following 1/1/16, you're probably going to be disappointed. People will get used to the idea sooner than expected.

Most OCers will not be doing so conspicuously. They will probably be carrying in a concealed manner but with likely a bit more access than completely concealed. There will of course be those with a Buntline Special in a tie down rig going to Starbucks for a latte.

Alan
 

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We have open carry here in Idaho and we don't need a concealed carry permit to open carry. People walk around with guns on their belts quite often. I've never seen any issue made of it either. Even I open carry my .45. Nobody has ever mentioned anything to me about it.
 

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Those that call 911 and report someone open carrying should be asked, "Are they doing anything illegal?" If they answer "Yes.", the police should response. If it turns out the OC person isn't doing anything illegal, the police should arrest the 911 caller for making false statements to police.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Good feedback all! And thanks!

I admit to being a bit of a worrywart here and really don't know the impact.

I realize that yeah, the 911 caller will be questioned and the right first query being "Is he doing anything illegal?" and that might tamp down the goofball calls.

Understand, I'm on the side of the gun owners here 100%. I'm just concerned (maybe unrealistically) that this open carry will provoke a lot of unnecessary 911 calls when genuine emergencies are important. Hopefully it will all fizz out without much fanfare.

And yeah, I've seen those messages from anti-gun nuts who say they'll mace the carrier. Even if they don't get shot for trying it, you're talking about assault charges plus a generous and hefty lawsuit afterwards. I tend to think these folks are blowing smoke, don't carry mace and are such cowards anyway that they'll run away like little mice if they really do see a gun. Squeak, squeak.

My first thoughts are that with all the recent uproar and murdering of cops, there will be added tension.

There's one other concern about open carry that I have, maybe some feedback on how you see this too? ---- As soon as OC is legal, will there be more Black Panthers and other thugs who'll be OC even though they don't have a permit, just because they're asses and jerks? I dunno. Now the new Tx law allows an LEO to inquire of the OC person to see their license but that might also provoke a confrontation, especially with these BP jerks. Think this might be a sidebar problem?
 

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If someone is legally carrying there likely won't be a problem. If the are illegally carrying, then, they are in violation of the law and as such would be subject to all that goes along with that.

Here's where I see a problem. There are many places where carrying at all are not legal or not allowed. Legal is legal so I won't cover that. However, if there is a place of business or a person's who owns property that doesn't allow firearms, for whatever reason, I am perfectly good in respecting that choice on their part. I can then choose to not go there or not carry there. If I am open carrying and I decide to go to the post office then I have to take my weapon off of my person and leave it in the truck. This is a liability for me since I openly place a weapon in my vehicle and left it unattended. If I was concealed carrying it would be no different except that really no one would know that I had left it in the vehicle since it was concealed up to that point.

There are always going to be people who don't like what someone else is doing. This little exercise is no different than dealing with other things. People who are open carrying are going to have to keep their heads and not play into the hands of the baiters who will try to solicit a negative response from someone carrying a handgun.

By and large people who get concealed carry permits are people who do things by the book. It won't really be a problem for them to comply with the law or lawful requests.

Alan
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Very good points, Alan.

As I've said before, my only real concern personally about carrying at all is that in Texas, it's illegal to carry in a tavern, any establishment, technically, that has 51% of revenue from alcohol consumption on property. So a liquor store is okay, so is a restaurant that serves alcohol, and even a bar attached to the restaurant so long as the bar is not a separate closed-off area.

My concern isn't while I'm in the bar -- I don't go to rough places. My concern is getting to my car late nights after listening to a fave local band -- I enjoy blues and there are lots of nice clubs where live local music is featured. Of course at my age I'm less of a night owl than years back, but still. Now for those clubs, it's state law and carrying even with a license is a felony and guarantees loss of license too. That's my only conflict and it might just be that I might still decide to carry anyway (hypothetically of course).

Then there's the establishments that put up their own "no gun" signs, places like maybe a coffee shop or restaurant or movie theater. Carrying there is a misdemeanor and only if you're seen carrying, asked to leave, and do not. But concealed carry means just that and if my girlfriend & I attend a movie, our going to the parking lot afterward at night might be risky. So I might just concealed carry anyway. That's the choice I make and chance I take.

Insofar as open carry however, I'm just not keen on the idea. As for warning off a thug, sure. But maybe "surprise! bang!" is better? I dunno.

I'm okay with open carry on principle but for me, it's more of a hassle because I'll get stared at and I prefer to keep it sub rosa. But that's just my personal decision.

Maybe open carry won't be such a big thing. I hope so and hope that everyday people get used to seeing more guns in their lives.

What I DO know is that the folks carrying will not be a bother or a problem themselves. As you say, we're generally law abiding and real trouble comes from the thugs anyway. Maybe other folks will soon realize this more, seeing open carry, whereas with concealed they never find out. I'm also thinking that the average thug will think twice about trying to rob Joe's Convenience Store if they see 2 or 3 customers packing.
 

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Those that call 911 and report someone open carrying should be asked, "Are they doing anything illegal?" If they answer "Yes.", the police should response. If it turns out the OC person isn't doing anything illegal, the police should arrest the 911 caller for making false statements to police.
Ain't never gonna happen. But I love it!!! I will continue to keep my pistol in my pocket. With the new Missouri open carry law, I just don't have to worry about anybody seeing the outline or grips. I still like having a bit of a surprise to predators.
 

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We have open carry here in Idaho and we don't need a concealed carry permit to open carry. People walk around with guns on their belts quite often. I've never seen any issue made of it either. Even I open carry my .45. Nobody has ever mentioned anything to me about it.
Yeah...but that which works or goes unreported to the LEO's in MacKay, Idaho does not necessarily work in downtown Houston, Texas. I suggest that open carry should only be done after considering the individual circumstances. It's unfortunate but true. Just because something is legal doesn't automatically mean that it's a good idea.
 

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we should be starting the new criminal law up-date training.............as mandated........probably this November. At that time the oc law will be discussed amongst us officers.

The biggest bump in the road will probably not be from agencies but from non-carrying citizens as in education. This has been in the news quite a bit and hopefully will continue to make the various papers and the TSN Radio network.

There will be some 911 calls.......hopefully dispatch can weed out what is a problem and what ain't. Probably the biggest problem will be 30.06 signs. The thing is, some will see an improper sign and go ahead and carry knowing that they are not welcomed......that type of attitude is what will give all OC'ers a bad name. There will be some butting heads between citizens and business and we will just have to wait and see where business will land on the issues. While this has not been a problem with CHL, the oc may present a different tact.....especially since the corporate offices may be in NY, CA, or who knows where. When corporate sees that less than 2% of citizens have permits, they might decide that they can live with 2% less business..........and will if it offends 10% of no-carriers who stop doing business because of the issue........so what to do to prevent or minimalize damage in sales?

This will not be that big a problem for local small business. They generally stay in tune with their community and will get a quick feel for what route to take.......and it will probably be pro 2A.......but there will be exceptions.

When CHL came to pass, there was much hysteria that there would be an increase in road rage, blood in the streets, etc, etc..............it was easily proven false. I am of the opinion the same thing will happen with OC of handguns over time........after-all, handguns are still viewed ad defensive weapons. Not like rifles that are viewed as "offensive" and what OC Texas uses for shock and awe tactics.

what i am curious about is not so much the law but what will be the various dept policies as for contacts. There will still be suspicion, confusion, and awkard moments on both the citizen and LEO as everyone gets in step with things.

On one hand, i do want cautious officers.....but not paranoid officers.......
on the other hand, i do want common sense citizens.....not in your face citizens.......

the last thing i want is an "us against them" on either side of the coin.........everybody looses then.

its going to be like a shotgun pattern for a while........probably well over 90% within the proper zone.........but there are going to be a few that land outside the acceptable circle.......on both sides.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Yeah...but that which works or goes unreported to the LEO's in MacKay, Idaho does not necessarily work in downtown Houston, Texas. I suggest that open carry should only be done after considering the individual circumstances. It's unfortunate but true. Just because something is legal doesn't automatically mean that it's a good idea.
Same here as I see it. I don't carry because I want to show off or demonstrate my 2A rights. I carry for self protection. Period. Which is why I both laugh at and am irritated at these OC rights protestors with their AR strapped across their (probably) ample posteriors. What are they doing other than to PO others. I think these jerks are just showing off, flaunting, and that's stupid. I sincerely doubt they actually feel they're in danger visiting the Starbucks. Making a circus of your rights is flipping off others, and that's not how I was raised.

I'm perfectly ready to defend myself from the sort of assault which I prep for, the mugging or carjacking. And as was said by North, that thug is thinking, "Old whitehair dude, nice car, this be easy" and surprise!

Anyway, deputy, THANKS! Great feedback from an LEO. I'm glad that LEOs in Tx are likely to discuss the aspects of OC and how to deal with, and that dispatchers will be apprised of how to best analyze a situation so as to prevent needless calls to the cops for useless outcalls. They're busy enough.

The businesses who put up their own signs (30.06 they are known as in Tx, thanks for the memory jog) have already complained via their corporate HQs about concealed carry anyway, and even if the local owner or worker supports conceal carry, has to go thru all the stuff when these mall ninjas show up wearing their ARs on their backs like a grass widow wearing her heart on her sleeve (keen metaphor, I'll save it for my next book! ha ha).

And I'm sure that soon the jerks will OC in the same places, just because their mamas didn't let them stay up late to watch TV or something.

I believe that guns have a purpose and it's not to show off (well, maybe if you've bought a particularly nice new AR or Kimber or something) but generally, for me, guns are to defend myself and my loved ones from attack. Not to flash around in a parade. I've got better things to do.

Your comment:
On one hand, i do want cautious officers.....but not paranoid officers.......on the other hand, i do want common sense citizens.....not in your face citizens.......

was terrific! I totally agree and thanks again for giving us a LEO perspective.

Understand, I knew full well that concealed carry would not be a bloody affair. Facts are that states with concealed carry have seen less direct attacks on citizens than other, and documented incidents prove that the vast majority of incidents are "good shoots" in that the citizen lawfully protected himself. Conceal carry people who commit crimes using the weapon are very rare and statistically far below the overall average.

And likewise, I don't think there will be chaos when OC starts. My principal concern is that LEOs and 911 folks will get sidetracked by useless calls and that antigun jerks will create problems where none really exist.

Thanks again everyone for your good feedback. The comments have made me comfortable about the unintended consequences of OC and I hope that useless trouble will fade away soon.

What might be a positive aspect of OC is that eventually, ordinary non-gun citizens may come to be more comfy with seeing guns carried when previously they were unaware of concealed carry. And so they'll become more pro-gun as a result. It would be of great benefit that a few citizens are in trouble but a non-LEO open carry guy helps them out, like being held up at the local convenience store and saved. And news stories like that would really help the cause.
 

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My state has Open Carry. I don't. Simply because I don't want to make myself a target - either as first victim in a shooting spree OR as a "man with a gun" call. Some time back I was in a state where I'm not licensed for concealed carry and had to go out and about, I decided to go open carry, which was permitted in that state. The weapon got noticed and commented on - favorably. I was in a very firearms friendly location. Still - it made me nervous to have the attention.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I generally agree, Grey. I prefer a somewhat lower profile and that's augmented by my being physically limited in movement and therefore unable to easily scoot to cover or otherwise "assume the tactical position" and so I'll just have to stand there and shoot or get shot. So for me, OC would probably be unwise.

i'm happy to go into Kroger or the local TexMex place, pick up groceries or eat them, and be done with it, regardless of whether I'm carrying. And for me, OC would interfere with that fairly easy going routine.

Nevertheless I support OC for those who want to and have apprised themselves of the potential problems inherent in that. Fine with me.
 

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Hmmmm - I smell a small business opportunity here for someone down there in Texas. Make and sell a Sign:

This business proudly supports your right to Keep and Bear Arms
concealed and open carry welcome here
or something to that effect. Start it there - maybe it will go nationwide, ya think?
 

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I think these signs are already available but there's no copyright on a similar wording. Might bring a few bucks and otherwise spread the word, y'know.
 

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Well, the new open carry law starts Jan 1 in Texas. What the lawmakers did was to essentially remove the word "concealed" from the existing law. So concealed licensees will be able to open carry.

Myself, I think OC is more trouble that it's worth. Yeah, I understand our constitution and all, but in our modern era, I think that OC is a bad idea even though I do support that right, if someone wants to.

I know that there are lots of folks who live in rural areas who may be OC and go to the local store for a quick trip and so on, an isolated general store out in the sticks. Stuff like that. But hey, I live smack in the middle of Houston.

Now when I see someone OC after the first of the year, what will be my reaction? I'll stare and wonder if he's a plainclothes deputy or something first off, then I'll realize that oh, it's a guy with a license who's decided to OC.

But I've grown up around guns, have my concealed license and was in the 2nd class ever in the Houston area when these first were legal. And yet even though I am very "easy" around guns, I won't be able to do anything else but stare at first, and that's only natural, seeing some dude walk into Kroger or Walgreen with a pistol on his hip.

Thing is, if I might stare and I'm at ease with guns, how will the average dodo citizen react? Will they point and yell or maybe call the cops?

What I really think is that the cops are gonna have a huge influx of 911 calls from "scared" citizens. Let's face it -- people who are not familiar with guns are often frightened to see them. I know that we "gun nuts" aren't that way but there are many others out there who are the opposite of us and will panic when they see a gun. And call 911.

What the heck will the cops do? What will the 911 operators do? I hope someone has sat down and thought this out. And not only the average non-gun citizen, but there are antigun activists who are planning to make a fuss every time they see an OC. What if the 911 operators are deluged? How will they handle it?

Your thoughts? And yeah, I know the "stock" answer is "let 'em be scared" but in reality, a bunch of idiots calling 911, actually scared or just trying to cause trouble, either way, can really create a bunch of false alarms.

"I see this man and he's in Walgreen right now, he just went in, and he's got a gun! EEEK!"

What the heck can the 911 people do? They can't ignore the call -- it MIGHT be a robbery, huh? So they'll have to dispatch a cop to the scene.

At least that's the way I see it, maybe things will calm down after a few months, but hey, there are so many busybodys now, people who will call 911 if they see kids riding in a car without seat belts and so on.

What say you?
Kansas has had open carry since we became a state (1861) I believe. I have carried open for years. Never have had the cops called on me, guess I dont look like a gomer.
 
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