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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been doing my own person research online for the different calibers, and well I am even though I am not currently a Gun Owner myself I was curious as to what other Firearm owners would have to say about this. Basically I was looking at maybe down the road for 1 Bolt Action Rifle, and a Semi-Auto as well, and well the two main calibers that I narrowed it down to is the .223, and the .308. Both Calibers seem to be reasonably priced for the Better variety of Bold-Action, however I was only looking for one other those in particular. My main Issue is that they are both pretty far up there as far as the Semi-Auto's go, but the .308 are quite a bit higher than the .223 Rifles. Now I do realize that If I were to get The Semi-Auto for the .223 that can be modified also to shoot a weaker .22LR, but still the cost is a bit up there. Would anyone like to give me any suggestions, or help me out on this one? I was also thinking in terms of Ammo Cost, and Availability too under the grounds of a Minimalist variety of Caliber.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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How do you plan of using your rifle? What do you plan on shooting?
 
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Let me see if I can un-muddy the waters some by saying first-IF there were a simple solution to the

caliber/ rifle type question, don't you think we would have figured it out, and be doing it?

You won't find a firearm which will readily fire .223 and 22LR. For one thing, they have different types of

priming designs. Perhaps you need a little perspective.

22LR is a great "minimalist" caliber, and the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin 60 are both great 22LR semi-auto

rifles. Get a Hornady reloading manual. A used one is fine, for now, because it's the information you will get

from it, not for the purpose of reloading.
 

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Let me see if I can un-muddy the waters some by saying first-IF there were a simple solution to the

caliber/ rifle type question, don't you think we would have figured it out, and be doing it?

You won't find a firearm which will readily fire .223 and 22LR. For one thing, they have different types of

priming designs. Perhaps you need a little perspective.

22LR is a great "minimalist" caliber, and the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin 60 are both great 22LR semi-auto

rifles. Get a Hornady reloading manual. A used one is fine, for now, because it's the information you will get

from it, not for the purpose of reloading.
I think the OP is talking about an AR-15, which have .22LR conversion kits available.
 

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Like most new folks you are asking the wrong question.

The bolt action is suited to any and all calibers. It allows for increased strength, accuracy, ejection and feeding. You will find bolt action rifles chambered in ALL caibers but a semi-auto is limited in calibers. To try and go with your original premise get a bolt action in 308 then get your semi in 223 or 22 or both.

The first in a series of questions I would want to ask you is what are your goals and budget? Do you have time frames?
 
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Sooo, an AR15 for 223/556, @ 600$, the conversion kit for the AR to 22LR at 240$.

(Yeah, the discussion seemed to be going in the direction of a conversion for a boltie)

The conversion kit cost is the same as a good base model Marlin 60, or Ruger 10/22,

but knock yourself out...
 

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Back up a second. What do you mean when you say "better"? Lower price?, flatter trajectory? Energy delivered on target at a specified range? Total loadout weight on the trail?

Until you can define "better", the question has so many answers as to be moot.

Instead of trying to define the best rifle from first principles, go to the range, hit on friends and shoot as many as you can. Sooner or later, one of those rifles will speak to you saying I'm the one. Go with it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
How do you plan of using your rifle? What do you plan on shooting?
Practice Shooting, Hunting of Small/Medium Game, and maybe Small Predators

Let me see if I can un-muddy the waters some by saying first-IF there were a simple solution to the

caliber/ rifle type question, don't you think we would have figured it out, and be doing it?

You won't find a firearm which will readily fire .223 and 22LR. For one thing, they have different types of

priming designs. Perhaps you need a little perspective.

22LR is a great "minimalist" caliber, and the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin 60 are both great 22LR semi-auto

rifles. Get a Hornady reloading manual. A used one is fine, for now, because it's the information you will get

from it, not for the purpose of reloading.
Yes I am aware that they will not be at Default the same Caliber in a single Rifle. What I meant was to interchange barrels as well. Yeah i did some research on the .22LR, and it is assumed the most inexpensive at the moment for practice shooting, and the Marlin 60 on it's own is currently cheaper than a barrel change i've noticed. Yes that is good advice about a reloading manual because I would rather not look like Elmer Fudd after shooting a double barrel shotgun, or worse.

I think the OP is talking about an AR-15, which have .22LR conversion kits available.
Yep that is what I was I was trying imply by .22LR, and .223 I just forgot to specify, but is there any benefit to using a barrel conversion kit on a more expensive model verses buying a Marlin 60, or otherwise?

Like most new folks you are asking the wrong question.

The bolt action is suited to any and all calibers. It allows for increased strength, accuracy, ejection and feeding. You will find bolt action rifles chambered in ALL calibers but a semi-auto is limited in calibers. To try and go with your original premise get a bolt action in 308 then get your semi in 223 or 22 or both.

The first in a series of questions I would want to ask you is what are your goals and budget? Do you have time frames?
Maybe so but, which would have greater accuracy at short/medium range distance as a Bolt-Action is what I should have been more specific about. Yeah concerning the array of BA calibers I think I remember seeing a wider variety. The SA probably more expensive I am guessing in part also because of the lower array of calibers?

Sooo, an AR15 for 223/556, @ 600$, the conversion kit for the AR to 22LR at 240$.

(Yeah, the discussion seemed to be going in the direction of a conversion for a boltie)

The conversion kit cost is the same as a good base model Marlin 60, or Ruger 10/22,

but knock yourself out...
Yes, but I am thinking that the AR-15 is a bit much altogether, and the Marlin 60 I remember seeing for like 160$ + SH somewhere as a Semi-Auto. I am wondering if it would be better for a SA .22LR Semi-Auto, and a .223 + .308 for the Bolt-Actions (Basically 2 Bolt-Action Rifles, and one SA). Your right though if it will cost the same for a barrel conversion as a new Rifle then why not just get the other rifle?

Back up a second. What do you mean when you say "better"? Lower price?, flatter trajectory? Energy delivered on target at a specified range? Total loadout weight on the trail?

Until you can define "better", the question has so many answers as to be moot.

Instead of trying to define the best rifle from first principles, go to the range, hit on friends and shoot as many as you can. Sooner or later, one of those rifles will speak to you saying I'm the one. Go with it.
As far as Better/Lower Price I mean a more "modest" price when it comes to the obtainment of all three calibers (.22LR, .223, .308) without buying something junky, and unreliable. As far as Trajectory being able to shoot accurately enough for both a beginner, and more of a novice as well. I am thinking in terms of "Multi-Purpose" overall, but mainly Practice Shooting, Hunting under "Most" circumstances no more than medium game, and also maybe smaller predators. Yeah I do realize that I would probably have to try things out, and ask more from others first before I take that leap of a decision, but for the time being I am doing online research to prepare before-hand.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Practice Shooting, Hunting of Small/Medium Game, and maybe Small Predators



Yes I am aware that they will not at Default the same Caliber in a single Rifle. What I meant was to interchange barrels as well. Yeah i did some research on the .22LR, and it is assumed the most inexpensive at the moment for practice shooting, and the Marlin 60 on it's own is currently cheaper than a barrel change i've noticed. Yes that is good advice about a reloading manual because I would rather not like Elmer Fudd after shooting a double barrel shotgun.



Yep that is what I was I was trying imply by .22LR, and .223 I just forgot to specify, but is there any benefit to using a barrel conversion kit on a more expensive model verses buying a Marlin 60, or otherwise?



Maybe so but, which would have greater accuracy at shot/medium range distance as a Bolt-Action is what I should have been more specific about. Yeah concerning the array of BA calibers I think I remember seeing a wider variety. The SA probably more expensive I am guessing in part also because of the lower array of calibers?



Yes, but I am thinking that the AR-15 is a bit much altogether, and the Marlin 60 I remember seeing for like 160$ + SH somewhere as a Semi-Auto. I am wondering if it would be better for a SA .22LR Semi-Auto, and a .223 + .308 for the Bolt-Actions (Basically 2 Bolt-Action Rifles, and one SA). Your right though if it will cost the same for a barrel conversion as a new Rifle then why not just get the other rifle?



As far as Better/Lower Price I mean a more "modest" price when it comes to the obtainment of all three calibers (.22LR, .223, .308) without buying something junky, and unreliable. As far as Trajectory being able to shoot accurately enough for both a beginner, and more of a novice as well. I am thinking in terms of "Multi-Purpose" overall, but mainly Practice Shooting, Hunting under "Most" circumstances no more than medium game, and also maybe smaller predators. Yeah I do realize that I would probably have to try things out, and ask more from others first before I take that leap of a decision, but for the time being I am doing online research to prepare before-hand.
You are describing the need/want for rifles in both calibers.

A Marlin Model 60 will not fulfill your stated needs. It is a very good 'starter rifle', though.

Purchase an entry level (budget) Savage or Ruger bolt action rifle chambered in .223 Rem. It should fulfill most of what you want (ammo is cheaper to purchase than .308 Win, as well). Get good with it. Then decide if you need another rifle chambered in .308 Win.
 
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You are describing the need/want for rifles in both calibers.

A Marlin Model 60 will not fulfill your stated needs. It is a very good 'starter rifle', though.

Purchase an entry level (budget) Savage or Ruger bolt action rifle chambered in .223 Rem. It should fulfill most of what you want (ammo is cheaper to purchase than .308 Win, as well). Get good with it. Then decide if you need another rifle chambered in .308 Win.
I agree. You should listen to this guy. He forgot more about guns than most 10 of us will ever know.

A decent 22LR rifle is important for any serious shooter. IMHO, the 60 has a slightly better barrel than the Ruger 10/22.

Two other things-

1. Don't ever buy a cheap gun, you will regret it from that day forward. Stay with recognized

brand names.

2. If you live in an area of high humidity, you should consider stainless finishes, rather than blued models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You are describing the need/want for rifles in both calibers.

A Marlin Model 60 will not fulfill your stated needs. It is a very good 'starter rifle', though.

Purchase an entry level (budget) Savage or Ruger bolt action rifle chambered in .223 Rem. It should fulfill most of what you want (ammo is cheaper to purchase than .308 Win, as well). Get good with it. Then decide if you need another rifle chambered in .308 Win.
Excellent Advice! The .223 is probably not the cheapest for shooting practice, but if it will fulfill most needs then that would probably would be better like you said to start out with, but as far as an entry level Rifle would a Remington 700 series be any better than a Savage, or Ruger? A little better maybe?

I agree. You should listen to this guy. He forgot more about guns than most 10 of us will ever know.

Two other things-

1. Don't ever buy a cheap gun, you will regret it from that day forward. Stay with recognized

brand names.

2. If you live in an area of high humidity, you should consider stainless finishes, rather than blued models.
I Agree. I would never buy anything too cheap with something of this nature because 9 times out of 10 you would probably get what you pay for. I live in Northern US so the humidity can get pretty high at times during the summer, but not throughout the year. I would assume that stainless would be better for people in the Southern States?
 

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There's also Nickel Plating, Cerakote, Duracoat, hell, if you have half a hand with spray, you could probably

paint them yourself. I'm in Florida, and where I live, yeah, stainless or some other rust resistant finish. I camo-ed

a 12 guage bird gun, because the birds will vanish fast, if they see you pull out a Mossberg 500. And yeah, somehow

they can tell the difference.
 

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Excellent Advice! The .223 is probably not the cheapest for shooting practice, but if it will fulfill most needs then that would probably would be better like you said to start out with, but as far as an entry level Rifle would a Remington 700 series be any better than a Savage, or Ruger? A little better maybe?



I Agree. I would never buy anything too cheap with something of this nature because 9 times out of 10 you would probably get what you pay for. I live in Northern US so the humidity can get pretty high at times during the summer, but not throughout the year. I would assume that stainless would be better for people in the Southern States?
Remington Model 700, Ruger American or Model 77, Savage Axis or Model 10; pick the one that blows yer skirt up the highest and fits yer pocketbook the best. Usually, the more you pay the 'better' you get. Don't get lost in the 'neat features' offered. Personally, I suggest staying away from Remington's Model 783.

Stainless or blued. Blued or stainless. Either, properly cared for will last several, many, lifetimes. I'm 70 and didn't own a stainless rifle until about 25 years ago. I own many rifles and none exhibit any rust. Once again, pick the one that blows yer skirt up the highest and fits yer pocketbook the best.
 

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I like the Ruger 77. Hammer-forged barrel, safety in the right place, internal mag.

The magwell makes it easy to push your top round back down into the mag, run the bolt home

on an empty chamber, and set the safety, for travel.



Hey Popeye, ever have your blued rifles down to Florida for a year or two?

Because you may be mistaken, if you don't think I know what oil is.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Extended storage in a high humidity climate calls for the use of Vaseline (the poor man's cosmoline). The use of stainless steel in rifles is a relatively new 'advancement'. Ya gots ta pay attention to your belongings and take proactive preventative measures to ensure their continued viability.

Somehow, the old boys managed to keep their blued rifles in good working order, and in all climes, before the advent of 'magic' metals.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Oh yeah, I've lived in Maine, Virginia, Washington, D.C., North Carolina, Alabama, Florida, California, Oklahoma, Texas, Washington and California over the course of my life.

Yup, twice in CA. Guess that makes me a slow learner... or stubborn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Remington Model 700, Ruger American or Model 77, Savage Axis or Model 10; pick the one that blows yer skirt up the highest and fits yer pocketbook the best. Usually, the more you pay the 'better' you get. Don't get lost in the 'neat features' offered. Personally, I suggest staying away from Remington's Model 783.

Is there any particular reason why I should stay away from the Remington 783, and is there another .223 from the 700 Series that you would recommend if were to compare different brand models with it?


There's also Nickel Plating, Cerakote, Duracoat, hell, if you have half a hand with spray, you could probably

paint them yourself. I'm in Florida, and where I live, yeah, stainless or some other rust resistant finish. I camo-ed

a 12 guage bird gun, because the birds will vanish fast, if they see you pull out a Mossberg 500. And yeah, somehow

they can tell the difference.

I have one question about which out of the coating types are the cheapest if I were to choose between coating or no coating?
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Is there any particular reason why I should stay away from the Remington 783, and is there another .223 from the 700 Series that you would recommend if were to compare different brand models with it?





I have one question about which out of the coating types are the cheapest if I were to choose between coating or no coating?
I believe the Model 783 is a substandard weapon. Remington has had problems with their 'budget' line of rifles. These problems continue with the 783.

Remington's Model 700 equates to Ruger's Model 77 and to Savage's Model 10. Stay with the basic offering of any of them and you'll do good.

Ruger's American and Savage's Axis are a step down from the above but are good rifles. They are less expensive to purchase as well.

New, factory rifles need no 'extra coating'. They are fine just the way they are.

Stainless steel has just about killed nickel plating as a firearms finish because its cheaper and lasts forever.

Cerakote, Duracoat etc. are aftermarket products and unnecessary for your purposes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I believe the Model 783 is a substandard weapon. Remington has had problems with their 'budget' line of rifles. These problems continue with the 783.

Remington's Model 700 equates to Ruger's Model 77 and to Savage's Model 10. Stay with the basic offering of any of them and you'll do good.

Ruger's American and Savage's Axis are a step down from the above but are good rifles. They are less expensive to purchase as well.

New, factory rifles need no 'extra coating'. They are fine just the way they are.

Stainless steel has just about killed nickel plating as a firearms finish because its cheaper and lasts forever.

Cerakote, Duracoat etc. are aftermarket products and unnecessary for your purposes.
Ok then I would assume Stainless would be the best choice if anything better than standard. I also have one last question for you, and that would be for example is the Ruger 77 a Mauser-Style weapon? If that be the case I was curious as to how some people would not like the Mauser design of which I believe I've read some people saying that?
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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The Ruger Model 77 is a Mauser type rifle.

Some folks don't like food. Some folks don't like alcohol. Some folks don't like gold. This does not necessarily make them bad things. Ya see? No matter what it may be nor how good it is at doing what it is designed to do, somebody, somewhere is gonna ***** about it.
 
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