National Gun Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Harley Dude
Joined
·
14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I always take a pistol with me on my bike/car trips around the state or into Washington state.

Space was at a premium on my last bike trip so I stuck my Kel-tec and an extra mag in the roll bag where I could get at it quickly.

The road to the coast is pretty deserted after you get 30 min or so off the main freeway. Up into the coastal range, lots of woods and winding rivers.

But the Oregon beach can be totally deserted in the early morning or evening. We walked for a good four miles each day and would not see a soul for half the walk.

I had my hand on my little kel-tec 380 thinking a couple of mags of this little round will not do me much good on this vast beach. Black bears and cougars have been seen often around the cabins and here I am with a popgun for defense.

Its time to rethink my choice for defensive carry to the more isolated areas of the coast. I might find a place for my Glock 357sig/40 caliber model 32 on the next trip. Over twice the mag capacity of the kel-tec and a much harder hitting longer range round.

Would you carry a compact 45 acp or the Glock 32 in 357sig or 40 cal if you were making that decision??
 

·
Red State Rising
Joined
·
2,215 Posts
I personally think that either the .40 or .45 would be sufficient for most of the stuff you will come across with 2 or 4 legs. However we're talking about bears and cougars - so you might want to go with the .45, but that's just my opinion. A .40 may be sufficient... As always it's probably more about shot placement than the extra 5 hundredths of an inch in diameter.

I have no experience with the .357 sig rounds, though I'm under the impression that bullet diameter is not that different from standard 9mm luger... Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

·
Old School.
Joined
·
11,011 Posts
I would say any one of those would work just fine. I would prefer a .44mag for bear but they can be downed with the above if you will hold your line and hit your mark. Cougars and two legged gritters will drop with any of them and the bear is a little tougher if he is determined. :biggrin5:
 

·
Harley Dude
Joined
·
14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I personally think that either the .40 or .45 would be sufficient for most of the stuff you will come across with 2 or 4 legs. However we're talking about bears and cougars - so you might want to go with the .45, but that's just my opinion. A .40 may be sufficient... As always it's probably more about shot placement than the extra 5 hundredths of an inch in diameter.

I have no experience with the .357 sig rounds, though I'm under the impression that bullet diameter is not that different from standard 9mm luger... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, the 357 sig round uses a 9 mm bullet in a necked down 40 caliber case. Both the 357 sig and the 40 caliber will use the same magazines in the Glock 32. A different barrel is required. Its a smokin round with a 1250-1450 fps speed. Close to the 357 mag in performance.
 

·
Red State Rising
Joined
·
2,215 Posts
seems too fast for a 2 legged critter... most likely will just go right through a man and damage/hurt whatever is behind him... Maybe not with the proper ammo though.
 

·
Drunk Supernova
Joined
·
6,002 Posts
From what I have read, the smallest acceptable round for taking down a small black bear (200 to 300 pounds) is a .357 Mag from a six inch barrel firing soft points. Apparently (according to the sites Ive read), .45 ACP, while it will make a bigger hole, does not have enough penetration to reliably take down larger game.

I would carry extra ammo, but if six do not get the job done right with an animal, then neither will twelve, and if any other large animals are not running for the hills, then you are screwed either way.

Additionally, while .357 sig and .40 will penetrate further than .45 firing ball, it tends to have the same depth of penetration as the .45 when running hollow points. More velocity means more resistance and faster energy dispersal that coupled with a lighter round tends to mean less penetration. Or so I have read.
 

·
Harley Dude
Joined
·
14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
From what I have read, the smallest acceptable round for taking down a small black bear (200 to 300 pounds) is a .357 Mag from a six inch barrel firing soft points. Apparently (according to the sites Ive read), .45 ACP, while it will make a bigger hole, does not have enough penetration to reliably take down larger game.

I would carry extra ammo, but if six do not get the job done right with an animal, then neither will twelve, and if any other large animals are not running for the hills, then you are screwed either way.
I think you are correct. Folks around here will carry a mag of ball in 45 acp and a mag of hollowpoint in the woods. Ball for black bear penetration, hollowpoint for cougar and two legged threats.

Black bears have thin skulls on the side of the head and can be brought down with a 22 cal if the shot is placed right. Head on you will have a tough time scaring the bear. One of the gentlemen working in the gun shop I frequent brought down a small black bear with a 22 caliber pistol shot to the top of the skull.

The eskimos have known that for years and will kill polar bears with small caliber rifles. But you do have to have brass balls to participate in that game.
 

·
Drunk Supernova
Joined
·
6,002 Posts
I think you are correct. Folks around here will carry a mag of ball in 45 acp and a mag of hollowpoint in the woods. Ball for black bear penetration, hollowpoint for cougar and two legged threats.

Black bears have thin skulls on the side of the head and can be brought down with a 22 cal if the shot is placed right. Head on you will have a tough time scaring the bear. One of the gentlemen working in the gun shop I frequent brought down a small black bear with a 22 caliber pistol shot to the top of the skull.

The eskimos have known that for years and will kill polar bears with small caliber rifles. But you do have to have brass balls to participate in that game.
Ok. I was just thinking of center mass hits. They are a bit more dense than a human. But my only experience hunting them is with rifle. Kind of wanted to keep the heads intact.
 

·
Harley Dude
Joined
·
14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok. I was just thinking of center mass hits. They are a bit more dense than a human. But my only experience hunting them is with rifle. Kind of wanted to keep the heads intact.

Yep, you are right on. I don't think I would want to try a normal shoulder shot with a 45 acp on a bear. To take out the heart and/or lungs would take some power and I don't know if the 45 acp is up to the task.

In the majority of cases if you take a shot at a black bear it will run like a rabbit in the other direction. If with cubs you have a problem and you may back away from it and you may not. They do swing their heads from side to side in a warning motion so that side shot to the skull is very plausible if your hand is not shaking too badly while you wet yourself!
 

·
Drunk Supernova
Joined
·
6,002 Posts
Yup. Basic animal instinct. The only reason to fight to the death is to protect your DNA.

Me personally? This is one of the few times where I would feel more comfortable with a .357 mag than a .45. But you arnt much on wheel guns are ya??
 

·
Ancient Gaseous Emanation
Joined
·
55,708 Posts
In my experience, and I have a bit, a bear will not mess with a human unless it is insane or it feels threatened by said human. If you stay aware of your surroundings while in the wild your odds of being bothered by a bear are miniscule.

If a big cat wants you, you won't know about it until you are got.

Therefore, you are concerned with arming yourself against two legged predators. This decision has been hashed out on this and many other boards in the past.

If I were truly worried about being attacked by a bear or a big cat the absolute minimum firearm I would carry would be a rifle chambered in .30-30 Win.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
402 Posts
I personally wouldn't trust a .380 against any predators, 2 legged or 4 legged. Now, I have on occasion, but only for short term (just running down the store real quick) or when I have more firepower close by (I often carry my P3AT around the house).

If I was going into bear country, I'd really want to have at least a .357 magnum, but since I don't own one of those at the moment, I suppose I would settle for a .45 loaded with FMJ.
 
G

·
10mm is a good round for self defense from forest critters such as black bears. Lots of mag capacity and an extremely hot deep penetrating round for an autoloader. Basically the 40S&W but with more velocity and deeper penetration. Though its costs more to shoot as well.
 

·
Chicago Pro-Gun Activist
Joined
·
2,444 Posts
From the time I was first trained to fire a hadngun by the Corps, I have used the .45 so that is the weapon I am most comfortable using. There is a lot of history as proof to its ability against the two legged variety of animal.

When I was in Montana earlier, I carried both ball and JHP while in the woods and clearing brush. Did not have it to kill bear but figured I needed something "just in case." As many have said, I would try to back away from a bear instead of facing it with just the handgun. As for lion, I would need a lot of luck and very quick reactions if one was stalking me in that country. My motto was - always be aware of the area being entered - stop, look and listen.
 

·
Harley Dude
Joined
·
14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yup. Basic animal instinct. The only reason to fight to the death is to protect your DNA.

Me personally? This is one of the few times where I would feel more comfortable with a .357 mag than a .45. But you arnt much on wheel guns are ya??



Hummmmmm................wheel guns?

I do have a nice S&W model 65 357 mag 4", also Ruger 44 mag and 45 LC. But those are heavy guns to pack. The model 65 would be the best choice for a lighter weight packing, I might look into that. Need to see if I have a holster that will work.

Glock 32 in 357 Sig has almost the same power as the 357 mag. Thats another one to consider. Its got to be the lightest of all my choices at about 27 oz, I believe.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top