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Iron Maiden
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As an expat South African, I am so sick and tired of hearing about what a "hero" Nelson Mandela is. He is not a hero, he is a terrorist, and is responsible for the suffering and deaths of hundreds, including his own people. He has advocated violence as a means to an end and as of now, his 90th year, has still maintained that stand.

In 2006 the The South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) was set up by the Government to investigate, and come to terms with what happened under apartheid. Thabo Mbeki, who was Deputy President at the time, Defense Minister Joe Modise and Justice Minister Dullah Omar went before the commission to answer questions about the wrongs committed by opponents of apartheid.

The ANC admitted to countless acts of terrorism, including the 1964 Johannesburg Train station bombing and the bombing of air force headquarters in 1983 in which nineteen people died , including 11 military officers. In all, the ANC report detailed 550 armed actions carried out by its armed Spear of the Nation wing, and another 100 incidents that may or may not have been committed by its operatives. It tried to put the attacks into a political context, saying civilians were never targeted but that the ANC gradually accepted that such casualties were unavoidable.

"We have not attempted to argue that because our struggle was just, this fact justified ... unacceptable methods of struggle," Mbeki said.

Mandela was head of the ANC at the time, and despite being in prison, was always the one calling the shots and is still, in fact, on the terrorist list in the US despite many liberal groups calling for his removal claiming he was a "freedom fighter". How is he different to any other idealistic freedom fighters? How is the ANC different to Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Tamil Tigers, to mention but a few. Where does that line change from terrorist to hero? I'm confused.......... :?:
 

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Right Wing Zealot
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SheNine said:
Where does that line change from terrorist to hero? I'm confused.......... :?:
Whether someone is declared a hero or a terrorist is decided by who is writing the history books, the newspaper articles, etc. There were many terrorists here in the U.S. during the radical 60's that are often refered to as 'Heroes'. History books portray many of the 'Freedom Riders' and others of that ilk as golden hearted defenders of racial equality, when in fact many of them were just looking for a reason to travel, party and protest...not because they were interested in civil rights for blacks, but because they wanted to create disruption, smoke marijuana and raise Hell in the 'conservative south'. You never saw these 'heroes' travel to Detroit or Watts, California to protest high crime rates or nasty living conditions, or even help clean up bad areas in black neighborhoods...they could have cared less...and still don't care. The news media was creating headlines in Philadelphia Mississippi, Not Philadelphia, PA...so that is where they went. Yet television and the U.S. government villify southern whites for any atrocity...real or imagined...and make heroes out of anyone who claims to be a victim of it. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have caused more poverty and problems for blacks in this country, but they will go down in the history books as 'civil rights heroes'.

Like I said...the media decides who is a hero on the national level. And that is determined by a political agenda,, nothing else.
 

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Harley Dude
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Kinda makes you wonder about the logic of taking political terrorist prisoners. It seems to come back to bite you in the butt. The evil side many times does not make the same mistake.
 

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Iron Maiden
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
SatanzBountyHunter said:
SheNine said:
Where does that line change from terrorist to hero? I'm confused.......... :?:
Whether someone is declared a hero or a terrorist is decided by who is writing the history books, the newspaper articles, etc. There were many terrorists here in the U.S. during the radical 60's that are often refered to as 'Heroes'. History books portray many of the 'Freedom Riders' and others of that ilk as golden hearted defenders of racial equality, when in fact many of them were just looking for a reason to travel, party and protest...not because they were interested in civil rights for blacks, but because they wanted to create disruption, smoke marijuana and raise Hell in the 'conservative south'. You never saw these 'heroes' travel to Detroit or Watts, California to protest high crime rates or nasty living conditions, or even help clean up bad areas in black neighborhoods...they could have cared less...and still don't care. The news media was creating headlines in Philadelphia Mississippi, Not Philadelphia, PA...so that is where they went. Yet television and the U.S. government villify southern whites for any atrocity...real or imagined...and make heroes out of anyone who claims to be a victim of it. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have caused more poverty and problems for blacks in this country, but they will go down in the history books as 'civil rights heroes'.

Like I said...the media decides who is a hero on the national level. And that is determined by a political agenda,, nothing else.

Actually, I was being sarcastic! ;)

But you are absolutely correct. It's the liberal media, and those that have not done one iota of research that consider this man to be a hero. They just seem him as a victim of some oppressive regime, without looking at the facts.........
 

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Pro Gun Advocate
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10,940 Posts
I've subscribed to The Economist for over 20 years, everytime I read about your homeland I think of you, SheNine.

I just don't ever see any hope for those poor people over there.

I recommend we move the UN Headquarters to South Africa. Not only can they actually be somewhere that 'needs' them, but then they can get out of this country, which they seem to detest so much.
 

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Right Wing Zealot
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SheNine said:
Actually, I was being sarcastic! ;)
But you are absolutely correct. It's the liberal media, and those that have not done one iota of research that consider this man to be a hero. They just seem him as a victim of some oppressive regime, without looking at the facts.........
You didn't sound sarcastic...or at least I thought what you first said made sense.

What really pisses me off...besides everything...is that people like us know who Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon are...but no high school or college kid probably does...thanks to our selective history classes in our education institutions.
 

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Harley Dude
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Glock27Bill said:
I've subscribed to The Economist for over 20 years, every time I read about your homeland I think of you, SheNine.

I just don't ever see any hope for those poor people over there.

I recommend we move the UN Headquarters to South Africa. Not only can they actually be somewhere that 'needs' them, but then they can get out of this country, which they seem to detest so much.


Great idea! Of course then the UN donations could be split among all the crooked politicians/dictators of that Continent.
 

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Banned
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I will simply say what my mother said for over 30 years, and never once got an answer. Just called a "racist". Show me one neighborhood, in one single city, in one state, in ANY or ALL of the 50 states where the blacks moved in, and the whites moved out, and it got better? There isn't one, and there never will be one. If telling the truth makes me a "racist", so be it. It's better than being a foolish, politically correct liar. I will go further than that. Show me one single country on the surface of this planet that is under black rule, with a predominately black population, that is worth crap. There isn't one, or ever will be one. Every single one of them has been turned into an impoverished, disease ridden stink hole. South Africa being the latest example in a very long list of nations in Africa that have fallen one by one into disaster, by nothing more than black rule. Today in South Africa 70% of black women are HIV positive. The crime rate is soaring over what it was under DeKlerk, and property values are plummeting. Sound familiar? It should, we can see much the same in most any inner city in this country where the blacks have become the predominate population. Look at Somalia and Darfur. We sent food into Somalia by the cargo plane full. We were rewarded by having our helicopters shot down, and the men butchered and dragged through the streets like dead animals. Now liberals in this country want to do the same for Darfur. These people cannot be helped. They are their own worst enemy, and always have been. Where has decades of work by the "Peace Corp" in these black African nations helped in making these people self serving and productive? Nowhere. A complete waste of time, effort, and money. I'm sick of sitting down to eat my dinner in front of the television, and have a 350 pound Sally Struthers try and make me feel guilty for having a dinner to eat, and how I could feed some starving black kid for .50 cents a day, or some such silliness. "Feel good" politics and actions won't help these people one bit, anymore than Welfare has helped blacks in this country. What can you say about blacks today in this nation you couldn't say 45 years, and $4 TRILLION DOLLARS ago, before Lyndon Johnson gave us his "Great Society", except there are more of them, and they've all become more expensive? Look at all of the African nations today, currently under black rule, that were once thriving economically under white rule, and it is example enough for me that this trend will never be reversed. If anyone reads what I've written, and feels I'm a "racist" for saying it, ask yourself where have I lied? Bill T.
 

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Angry Citizen
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1,521 Posts
SatanzBountyHunter said:
What really pisses me off...besides everything...is that people like us know who Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon are...but no high school or college kid probably does...thanks to our selective history classes in our education institutions.
This is true. The only reason I recognized the names is because I watched Blackhawk Down for the first time yesterday. That movie brought tears to my eyes.
 

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Iron Maiden
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
billt said:
I will simply say what my mother said for over 30 years, and never once got an answer. Just called a "racist". Show me one neighborhood, in one single city, in one state, in ANY or ALL of the 50 states where the blacks moved in, and the whites moved out, and it got better? There isn't one, and there never will be one. If telling the truth makes me a "racist", so be it. It's better than being a foolish, politically correct liar. I will go further than that. Show me one single country on the surface of this planet that is under black rule, with a predominately black population, that is worth crap. There isn't one, or ever will be one. Every single one of them has been turned into an impoverished, disease ridden stink hole. South Africa being the latest example in a very long list of nations in Africa that have fallen one by one into disaster, by nothing more than black rule. Today in South Africa 70% of black women are HIV positive. The crime rate is soaring over what it was under DeKlerk, and property values are plummeting. Sound familiar? It should, we can see much the same in most any inner city in this country where the blacks have become the predominate population. Look at Somalia and Darfur. We sent food into Somalia by the cargo plane full. We were rewarded by having our helicopters shot down, and the men butchered and dragged through the streets like dead animals. Now liberals in this country want to do the same for Darfur. These people cannot be helped. They are their own worst enemy, and always have been. Where has decades of work by the "Peace Corp" in these black African nations helped in making these people self serving and productive? Nowhere. A complete waste of time, effort, and money. I'm sick of sitting down to eat my dinner in front of the television, and have a 350 pound Sally Struthers try and make me feel guilty for having a dinner to eat, and how I could feed some starving black kid for .50 cents a day, or some such silliness. "Feel good" politics and actions won't help these people one bit, anymore than Welfare has helped blacks in this country. What can you say about blacks today in this nation you couldn't say 45 years, and $4 TRILLION DOLLARS ago, before Lyndon Johnson gave us his "Great Society", except there are more of them, and they've all become more expensive? Look at all of the African nations today, currently under black rule, that were once thriving economically under white rule, and it is example enough for me that this trend will never be reversed. If anyone reads what I've written, and feels I'm a "racist" for saying it, ask yourself where have I lied? Bill T.

How refreshing to hear someone say what us South Africans have been saying forever! Unfortunately the rest of the world community decided that it was preferable to have a cesspool of a continent, than an ally and friend. The African continent has some of the most arable, and wide open land on this planet, and could very easily be the bread basket of the world, but now it is becoming nothing more than a desert because of mismanagement.

Very few people know that for much of the 70's and 80's South Africa was feeding most of the countries around it, and helping to stabilize the area. Since "independence" there is rampant starvation, crime, corruption and death. It's no wonder that that people are leaving in droves, and as much as the SA government complains and condemns us for leaving, they are doing nothing to make it safer for us to live there.

This is just a sample:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37010
 

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Much of this can be directly attributed to the attitudes of blacks today, as opposed to 40 years ago. Today blacks both in this country, as well as Africa have an attitude of entitlement. 40 years ago when wealthy whites went on extensive hunts in Africa, the black villagers welcomed them because it meant fresh meat to feed their families. Today many professional hunters won't guide in many of these areas because they fear violent reprisal by local black rebels. The African continent today can be all but written off as a total loss because of an ignorant, violent, lazy race of people who have proven over and over by destroying nation after nation with their foolishness and violence. About the only thing blacks have done well is to make a great many whites feel a large degree of guilt because of all of it. The result is this sham of an election we are about to be stricken with. Obama is propped up and cheered everywhere he goes by politically correct whites. This in spite of the fact he lacks any experience, and doesn't have one single political accomplishment of any kind under his belt. I never thought I would live to see the day white people in this country made the office of President an Affirmative Action position to be handed out to the least qualified applicant. It makes me wonder if we aren't as hell bent on self destruction as the bulk of the black population is. Bill T.
 

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Right Wing Zealot
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billt, if you're a racist, so am I. I have been arguing these points throughout my entire law enforcement and now legal career. The worthless government absolutely destroys communities when they give people Section 8 housing, welfare checks, free medical care, affirmative action and then tells them that they don't have to work for a damn thing (despite their affirmative action) and that the world owes them a perpetual favor.

I argued this in law school frequently...why does every other nation mass immigrate to white run nations and not vice-versa? And if this country was built on the 'backs of non-white immigrants'...then why aren't those countries thriving now instead of being the Hell on earth that they are. Todays proof:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/144093
White liberals are to blame for destroying black communities all over this country and across the globe...40 years ago, black males would have been the ones cleaning up Katrina ravaged New Orleans, keeping their families and others out of harms way and putting things back together without any help from the government...white liberal laziness killed that culture. There is nothing in this world more heroic than black conservatives...I would spill my blood for them.

I was discussing South Africa and Zimbabwe with a good friend yesterday and was reminded of a line in 'Tears of the Sun' where Navy Seal Bruce Willis was trying to evacuate white missionaries from a village in Africa destined to be slaughtered by a rebel army and the Priest refused to go with him:

Priest: "Go...with God!"
Bruce Willis: "God already left Africa"

Pretty much sums it up I think
 

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Banned
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The only other thing I would add, is for anyone who may read my posts and come back with the same lame reply of, "You are being stereotypical, and that is unfair to all of the hard working blacks out there". The "hard working blacks", of what few there are, have nothing to worry about. Most have long left behind the ravages of crime and drug saturated inner city living, and interact well with whites in the same neighborhoods. The biggest problem is with the hundreds of millions that fit that mold about as well as Hulk Hogan can fit into a mini skirt. There will never be enough of them to change the Kamikaze course there race has been put on by these irresponsible, lazy, violent people. We will keep making excuses for them, and they will keep looking for reasons to broadcast why they continually fail. We will never learn. Proof of that is we are now preparing to go down the exact same road with the tens of millions of Hispanics that have done the same thing to Mexico that the blacks have done to Africa. Bill T.
 

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Texas Legal Gunslinger
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billt said:
The biggest problem is with the hundreds of millions that fit that mold about as well as Hulk Hogan can fit into a mini skirt.
thanks for that mental image billt.
 

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Iron Maiden
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Damn, I love this forum 'cause it's filled with like-minded, logical-thinking, no PC bull-sh!t people..................

Oh, and I just heard that Mandela has been taken off the terrorist list. Great! As if the peace prize wasn't enough of a kick in the head!!! :roll:
 
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i agree with all the above posts and would just like to add that in my 3 trips to africa (namibia) i felt very uncomfortable going thru the cities/towns but once into the bush was made to feel welcome and comfortable.granted i was paying for service but i think of it like this; i avoid most cities like the plague because of the mentality and politics of the people that run/live there but things are different in the country people tend to be more conservative in the bush imo.its such a shame that the afforementioned blacks have driven that country into the ground but they have made headway (at least in namibia) in the hunting realm. they are finally beginning to see the financial value in the animals and have reduced the amount of animals they shoot. they get to keep all the meat and some of the money for all animals shot on tribal lands so at least someone is trying to move that country in the right direction.
 

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Banned
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Frederik Willem de Klerk , Past leader of South Africa



Jacob Zuma, slated to become South Africa's next President

And we wonder why the country is going to hell? Bill T.
 

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Angry Citizen
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I'll just throw my 2 cents in. The slaves were freed more than 150 years ago. That is more than enough time for black Americans to have gotten things together, and I applaud those who did, and I have black friends who are making their own way.
 

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Pro Gun Advocate
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In my opinion, it wasn't until the sexual revolution and the advent of the welfare state that all families as we knew them started falling apart.

The out of wedlock birth rate and its attendant problems really skyrocketed in the early 70s, and continues to climb.

Black families survived slavery and Jim Crow laws, only to be decimated by Liberal policies, politicians and philosophies.

I still don't understand how this generally conservative community can buy into the crap that's fed them from the left...the original party of racism.
 
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