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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am not trying to start a debate of any kind - just sorting through a lot of information received as I talk to people, read blogs and books, and check out You Tube.

-- Some are all about your natural point of aim: getting the stance and arm position just right so when you present the weapon you are in a natural alignment with your target. The point I usually hear with this is so you fall naturally back on target after recoil without a large amount of resighting and "muscling" the weapon.
-- Some are totally into proper alignment of the front sight in the notch of the rear sight, with the target a blur sitting on your front sight post. And I can see finding your natural point of aim with the sights properly aligned. I just know that for me it will take a bit of eye/brain training - which is not bad: shooting *period* is going to take a lot of training!
-- And then there are those who say "Why bother with all that junk? With the right grip, you point your fingers (and thumbs, too, say some) at the target and your gun is aligned by default. Then just pull the trigger!"

I'm sure there is an intersection of all three of these that makes total sense. My concentration will be on self-defense / combat shooting, where targets are not paper circles patiently hanging perfectly still 7 yards away in perfect lighting. On the other hand, in the early stages of learning and training, any and all learning the leads to better shooting will help should the time ever come that I need to.

I have a month coming up where, due to job schedule, I won't be able to indulge in normal off-hours activities, so nothing to encroach on my time. So I can take a bit of time each night to do some sight-training and dry-fire training at home without interference. Any words of wisdom??
Ed
 

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The regular practice is a key to the success.
Watch how naturally framers drive the nails!
It's called muscle memory.
 
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Dry firing is an exercise that won't let you lie to yourself. Set a mark for 25, 50, 75 or however many repetitions a session of trigger "presses" or "hammer drops".

Assume a relaxed and balanced stance. Work on your grip to eliminate the pulling or twisting motions to the gun that are the result of thumb and little-finger influences when you "press the trigger".

The most important moment of truth is the "follow thru". Keeping the front sight on or close to your aim point (steadiness comes from practice) across the room, press the trigger and see if the front sight is "on point of aim" at the moment the hammer falls. Like golf or catching a ball, the split second before the club-head hits the ball, or the ball hits your hands, you break attention in anticipating the hit or catch, and you blow it! "FOLLOW THRU" -------eye in the front sight, front sight on the point of aim! Period.

When the hammer falls and your front sight is still on the target (point of aim) you will see the "truth".

I discovered these 3 things (grip, trigger press, follow-thru) during a period of unemployment about 15 years back. Wish I'd had that Eureka Moment 45 years earlier. And it really works and improved my consistency in actual shooting and confidence to a great extent.
 

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I'm all about self defense in panic mode. I practice at 7 yards. If someone is 15 yards away, I'll be peeing down both legs as I run like hell.

I use the point and shoot method. Humans can very accurately point at stuff. We can do that even if we are on the ground, upside down, bladed this way or that, crouched, and I don't know what all. We can even do that single-handed and with our non-dominate hand.

I don't use the sights. That's for target shooting. I point at the target and go Blam! Blam! Blam!

I practice that a lot. I point my weapon at the target, close my eyes, mentally "see" the target and I'm Blam! Blam! Blam!

Another thing I practice a LOT is drawing. The web between my thumb and index has to be high on the gun. All the way high.

I use a GoPro to record myself and I use one on the target. I want to know what shot went where, when.

I'm pretty dang good at it.
 

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I'm part of the "natural point of aim" crowd but to me, that means that the gun fits your hand in a way that pushes everything into alignment when you point the gun at a target. This happens with no adjustment on your part. The key, in my never-to-be-humble opinion, is that the grip size puts your hand in the right position, finger on the trigger in the right position. If the grip is too large or too small, the gun will point naturally to one side or the other.

The grip also needs to be at the right angle or the gun will point naturally either low or high.

Obviously, a gun that fits one person well won't work for crap for the next guy in line. That second guy needs to get a different firearm or a different grip for the firearm.

The next part of the theory is that if you get a gun that gives you a great natural point of aim, then things like point shooting is easier for you, fast draw shooting is easier to learn, etc. Getting your gun on target is one less thing to have to think about when you're in a situation that requires shooting under duress, whether a competition or an SD situation.

--Wag--
 

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I just shoot at those "un-manly" paper bulls-eye targets. Why? Because I don't have enough maniacs breaking into my house to keep me occupied. That being said, I think one good rule is to work the trigger so that the gun going off is a "surprise". In other words, don't jerk off.
 

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I try not to overthink things. +1 for natural point of aim.

You can throw a baseball/football/ETC somewhat accurately without sights of any kind? If so, I feel shooting (pistols at least) are a natural evolution of that very ancient skill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I''m not trying to over-think either - really!! I'm just trying to understand the thoughts behind all the points of view.

A friend is all about the Natural Point of Aim. His thought is that you shouldn't have to "muscle" the gun to correct your aim point - it should feel natural to point that way.

I understand that - to a point. But if I'm in a self-defense situation, I' not sure I'll have time to make sure I'm in a "natural point of aim" stance to fire. I may have two targets, and will have to "muscle" the gun around from one target to the next.

Does that make sense?? Or am I missing something important?
 

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I''m not trying to over-think either - really!! I'm just trying to understand the thoughts behind all the points of view.

A friend is all about the Natural Point of Aim. His thought is that you shouldn't have to "muscle" the gun to correct your aim point - it should feel natural to point that way.

I understand that - to a point. But if I'm in a self-defense situation, I' not sure I'll have time to make sure I'm in a "natural point of aim" stance to fire. I may have two targets, and will have to "muscle" the gun around from one target to the next.

Does that make sense?? Or am I missing something important?
I load up my EDC 9mm with practice rounds (from Amazon) and I load up my spare magazine, as well.

I'm on the patio and I quick draw (web high on the gin) and point- aim and think, Blam! Blam! Blam!

Then I'm like, "Oh, look, a chicken." Point and think Blam! Blam! Blam!

At some point I drop the mag and grab the spare mag out of my pocket and insert it as smoothly as I can (takes a lot of practice).

Then, "Oh look, TWO of them bastids disguised as a basketball and a tricycle!" Blam! Blam! Blam! "A third perp at 2 o'clock hiding behind a security camera at 20 feet!!!!" Blam! Blam! Blam!

For me, it's important to practice with a weighted gun. Also I eject rounds as if they were stove pipes or nose dives and duds (which these are).
 

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What I've found is that when stressed you will focus on the target (threat) whether you want to or not. Armed with that knowledge, at fighting distances, focus on the target. Pick the spot you wish to hit ( lots of shootings involve head/neck/high torso shots because that's where they are looking) which should be just high of center mass. In your peripheral vision pick up the sights (both of them) and align them as they come up and out to the target. You should be putting pressure on the trigger as you push the gun towards the target (prepping the trigger) and it should go off as the sights align on the spot you are staring at. If you use this method you will be bringing the gun to your eye which will help transitions to other targets because all you need to do is snap your eyes to the next target drive the gun to the target with your legs and shoot. Very quick. Using your peripheral vision also helps you avoid tunnel vision so you will notice what is going on around you. The gun may or may not come back to your natural point of aim without some work with the recoil system and finding ammo it likes. If it's a gun with a heavy slide and/or if it has a really stiff spring it will dip low after it cycles. Reliability is paramount so you may need to just learn to deal with the way it recoils.
An IPSC/USPSA 2 handed grip on the gun is preferred but one handed practice is priceless.
Here's some quick work at close range.
 

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I just shoot at those "un-manly" paper bulls-eye targets. Why? Because I don't have enough maniacs breaking into my house to keep me occupied. That being said, I think one good rule is to work the trigger so that the gun going off is a "surprise". In other words, don't jerk off.
I did that when I first did target practice, a precursor to point and shoot. Accuracy early on, ballpark after that.

All my practice (for SD) is with my EDC and spare EDC. I am not surprised by the flash bang at all. I've practiced so much that I feel in control of flash bang. I'm holding steady and pulling the trigger straight back.

I'm the one making it happen. No surprise there.

Again, for precision shooting where a steady gun is crucial, creeping trigger control and surprise a the break is fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What I've found is that when stressed you will focus on the target (threat) whether you want to or not. Armed with that knowledge, at fighting distances, focus on the target. Pick the spot you wish to hit ( lots of shootings involve head/neck/high torso shots because that's where they are looking) which should be just high of center mass. In your peripheral vision pick up the sights (both of them) and align them as they come up and out to the target. You should be putting pressure on the trigger as you push the gun towards the target (prepping the trigger) and it should go off as the sights align on the spot you are staring at. If you use this method you will be bringing the gun to your eye which will help transitions to other targets because all you need to do is snap your eyes to the next target drive the gun to the target with your legs and shoot. Very quick.
That makes total sense to me!! I've heard that it's really a matter of eye/brain training, learning to see what you need to see. Right now, if I focus on my front sight, I see two rear sights and two targets if I have both eyes open. And I've been told that's where the training needs to happen. So this is a good explanation that makes sense to me. Thanks!!

Ed
 

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Yes and No what maybe natural to me may make some one else squirm on the same what is natural to you may drive me totally nuts, What is Natural POINT of AIM Implies I was born with a rifle in hand or a pistol NAH that is NOT what Powers That Be intended. Guns are Man Made nothing Natural about them. What feels good or acceptable to you. Fundamentals should come Natural breathing, trigger squeeze, keeping both eyes open, muscle memory should become natural. These are learned traits to shooting
 

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How do you get to Carnegie Hall ?

Practice . . .

... that said, you have to find what works well for you, and stick with it.
 
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