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· Grand Imperial Poobah
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What are the next options for the McCloskeys? The DA is hell bend in destroying them for the crime of defending themselves. Typical Communist Socialist response. Either do as I tell you or I will destroy you..
 
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· Grand Imperial Poobah
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They seem to be real nice folks....


Brandishing a firearm is illegal. The McCloskeys were clearly in the wrong in my opinion.

Alan

I would agree with you, except the McCloskeys were on their own property.
 
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My understanding is that the protestors were never on their property (or even property that they claimed was theirs).

We all know that you don't pull your gun until your life or the lives of others is in danger, and when that is the case, you shoot to stop the threat.

I'm not sure that was the case here.

Alan
 
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Carrying on your own property is okay. Pointing guns and telling people to get off of property that is not yours isn't okay.

Alan
 

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My understanding is that the protestors were never on their property (or even property that they claimed was theirs).

We all know that you don't pull your gun until your life or the lives of others is in danger, and when that is the case, you shoot to stop the threat.

I'm not sure that was the case here.

Alan
I don't disagree with your other points, but I am very familiar with that area and the rules of high end HOAs in MO. The property the protesters were on was marked as private property and belongs collectively to the homeowners of Portland Place, administered by the Portland Place Association trustees, who are elected homeowners. So technically, the McCloskeys could claim it was their property, as members of the association. And the protesters were approaching their individual property, so I think that is a gray area.

But I agree they did not handle the situation well.
 

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They'll get to prove their point in court, where, as personal injury lawyers, they seem to spend a lot of time on their own personal cases. I too have some experience with HOAs and none of them I have been associated with provide for individuals ordering anyone our of the collectively administered property at gun point. A property owner in the HOA can certainly convey to trespassers that they are engaging in trespass, but making them leave the common ground or detaining them at gunpoint is not within their authority. That is what the SO or the police are for.

No doubt the protestors are guilty of trespass on the HOA property, but the McCloskeys are guilty of brandishing. The tampering with evidence charge has me wondering too.

Alan
 
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They'll get to prove their point in court, where, as personal injury lawyers, they seem to spend a lot of time on their own personal cases. I too have some experience with HOAs and none of them I have been associated with provide for individuals ordering anyone our of the collectively administered property at gun point. A property owner in the HOA can certainly convey to trespassers that they are engaging in trespass, but making them leave the common ground or detaining them at gunpoint is not within their authority. That is what the SO or the police are for.

No doubt the protestors are guilty of trespass on the HOA property, but the McCloskeys are guilty of brandishing. The tampering with evidence charge has me wondering too.

Alan
There have been cases in the news lately all over the country of armed residents keeping protesters out of neighborhoods, checking IDs of people coming in, etc. The cops aren't doing their jobs and stopping the violence in neighborhoods. The people have a right to step up when that happens. That is what 2A is for. Cops would be the best answer, but if they won't show and get the job done, then what? The power is with the people.

MO law says a person may "...use physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such person of stealing, property damage or tampering in any degree. A person may use deadly force...only when such use of deadly force is authorized under other sections of this chapter." Basically, the claim in that last sentence will be disparity of force, two people versus a mob.

Portland Place is not your typical HOA, BTW, it is a very exclusive, gated community. If you are not invited, you cannot be in the common areas, period. You cannot "walk through" Portland Place. You can be arrested for trespassing just being there uninvited.

But again, I agree the McCloskeys did not handle it well and as lawyers and gun owners, they should have known that. I think if they had proper muzzle discipline and kept the guns pointed up, or down at the ground, they would have been within their rights.

The tampering with evidence thing is over the firing pin in Mrs. McCloskey's pistol. When the St. Louis crime lab got the gun, it was unfireable because the firing pin was not installed correctly. MO law says that to be guilty of the crime they are charged with, the gun has to be a functioning firearm. Otherwise, they would have to get charged with a lesser crime. The DA claims the gun was intentionally made non-functional after the crime but before it was confiscated. The McCloskeys will claim it was a reassembly error that they did not realize.

However, the DA compounded the problem by ordering the crime lab to disassemble the gun and reassemble it as functional and that is documented. So they tampered with evidence also. They should have left it as they found it and gotten experts to testify about the likelihood of it being made unfireable due to a mistake. I think that one will get thrown out.
 

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Glad I live in Texas and not MO.
If that group showed up at my front lawn. Given what was happening in the communities around the country at the time.
I would be well within my rights to stand in front of my house with a firearm and protect it from being burned or my family being harmed.
I hope every good 2nd amendment lawyer comes out and helps in their defense.
These Soros funded prosecutors need to be held in check and defeated at the next election
 

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The protesters had entered a gated community which is private property, they were already trespassing. The broke down the McCloskey's locked gate and at least one or more protesters entered through the gate, again trespassing. The protesters were chanting to kill their dog. This will all come out at trial and will come down to property rights. They will win and then file suit like the smiling kid in Washington.
 

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FOX News - Tucker Carlson - reports that George Soros is funding the DA almost directly by dedicating $200,000 specifically to the prosecution of the McCloskey's.
But I am sure that Mr. Soros is not dismissing his private armed security and also sure that they have orders to shoot if his residence is threatened..
 

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They seem to be real nice folks....


Brandishing a firearm is illegal. The McCloskeys were clearly in the wrong in my opinion.

Alan
where did you come from.in texas its legal to protect whats yours.
go back to kalafornia or where ever you came from
 

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Texas.....under the circumstances listed, the couple would had most likely been arrested. Refer to Texas Penal Code 9.42 as related to the use of deadly force in protection of property. PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

its one thing to open carry.......its something else to point it at someone or at a group if the justifications for deadly force do not exist. It's like the old saying, you point a gun then you best already had the justifications to pull the trigger....anything else is wishful thinking and brandishing to achieve a result using deadly force.

the whole gated community bit.....i am not buying it......they have their home owner rules, but as relation to common areas, i will let them hash that out in court....still, their actions at face value appear just as unlawful as the protestors.
 

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What about the crime lab making her pistol a working firearm again at the orders of the DA that should be considered as tampering with evidence. It had been disabled and used as evidence in a court case I had read.
 

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tampering with evidence........yes......it is a crime.
but you can still go to jail pointing an unloaded gun/non-functioning gun at someone.......it is still a deadly weapon. If that was not the case then there is no use in jailing bank robbers and kidnappers whom use unloaded guns or dummy guns committing their crimes.
 
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tampering with evidence........yes......it is a crime.
but you can still go to jail pointing an unloaded gun/non-functioning gun at someone.......it is still a deadly weapon. If that was not the case then there is no use in jailing bank robbers and kidnappers whom use unloaded guns or dummy guns committing their crimes.
True, but that would be a different charge. The gun being functioning is a key element of the felony Mrs. McCloskey is charged with.
 
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