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I always thought that they (mag safeties) are useless. That it is better to have the ability to shoot one last round in case you reload your pistol with a round still in the chamber. I understand the reasoning behind the safety though. If somebody grabs your pistol you can render it useless by ejecting the magazine.

Today I talked to a member of the "Douane" (I think that would be the "Border Patrol" in America). He is a member of some task force that participates in drug raids and such things and I know that he has had a lot of tactical firearms training. He told me that they prefer guns with magazine safeties because if you'd fire that last shot in your pistol while reloading (no magazine inserted) the slide will NOT lock back (a fact that I never thought about) and thus making the whole reloading process more difficult and longer. Something you definitely don't want in a stress situation.

What do you guys think? Magazine safety or not? I'm not so sure anymore...
 
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Entreri said:
I always thought that they (mag safeties) are useless. That it is better to have the ability to shoot one last round in case you reload your pistol with a round still in the chamber. I understand the reasoning behind the safety though. If somebody grabs your pistol you can render it useless by ejecting the magazine.

Today I talked to a member of the "Douane" (I think that would be the "Border Patrol" in America). He is a member of some task force that participates in drug raids and such things and I know that he has had a lot of tactical firearms training. He told me that they prefer guns with magazine safeties because if you'd fire that last shot in your pistol while reloading (no magazine inserted) the slide will NOT lock back (a fact that I never thought about) and thus making the whole reloading process more difficult and longer. Something you definitely don't want in a stress situation.

What do you guys think? Magazine safety or not? I'm not so sure anymore...
being a firearm instructor i believe you got some bad info. and our boarder patrol guys dont get very good training in tactics. and that last round could save your life. and if youve ejected your mag to keep the gun from being used against you. you are not in a position to reload anyway. and generally speaking the entry guys ive trained only carry a pistol as a backup. the only guy who uses a handgun only is the shield man cause his other hand is full. and he doesnt reload anway there are two more pistols strapped to the back of his shield.
 
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If you have a pistol with a magazine safety, simply train yourself to rack the slide after reloading rather than using the slide release. It's a touch slower, but more positive if the unlikely scenario you postulated really concerns you.

BTW, I worked closely with the US Border Patrol when I was on the National Guard's border control mission. I wouldn't say they were poorly trained at all (and I am also a certified pistol instructor, former competitor, and graduate of multiple upper-level private shooting academies). They qualify quarterly on a timed course of fire that I bet at least 75% of the people here couldn't pass, and they have continuous in-service tactical training, not to mention the BP gets in shootouts on a pretty regular basis with generally excellent success.
 
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leeindy said:
our boarder patrol guys dont get very good training
leeindy said:
im not saying they dont get adequate or good training its just nothing fancy
Oh. Okay. Glad you cleared that up. :?

Not sure what "fancy" training is, but these guys and gals do seem to prevail - decisively - in the vast majority of shootings they are in. Fancy or not, the BP training gets the job done, and that's what matters. A lot of the BP guys have been there and done it, and it never hurts to consider the opinion of guys who have "seen the elephant."
 
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when i say fancy. there not getting sent to gunsite or anything.

basically your average BP agent doesnt get the same trigger time as lapd swat or any of the other special units out there.
 

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I believe the mag safety thing is just a philosophical difference between America and Europeans. Sort of like the Israeli's not keeping a round in the chamber, so when they had to draw and rack the slide bery fast. That is pretty much unthinkable to an American. A long time ago in a land far, far away, I did some serious training when in the Army as part of a NATO special combat operations group. The Frenchies (regulars, not Legioniers) were amazed at our "throw away" metality. On the fly we would drop and forget the 1911 mags, then stuff another in the pistol. The French soldiers were quite eloquent in the push the release, grab the mag from the pistol, place it in their pocket and pop in a new mag. We would say, "We are faster on the reload" the French guy would say "Yes, but now you have to go find the magazines you droppped." Like that really matters in a fight. The Brits disconnected the mag safeties from their Browning HP's. With all the stuff they had going on in Northern Ireland in those day, those boys played serious.
 

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leeindy said:
takeing the mag safety out of the high powers cleans the trigger up a git and lets the mag drop free.
Absolutly! I popped the mag safeties off my HP's. Some people feel removing the mag safety makes the trigger feel "mushy". But the pull is definitly lighter.
 
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If I needed to go through a full mag and use a second one I really couldn't care less that I have to go back to find the first mag, I'd be happy as hell I just survived something that required me to reload... Silly French. :mrgreen:
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Personally, I have no use for a magazine safety. My safety resides between my ears.







Besides, revolvers don't have magazines.... :mrgreen:
 
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This is one of the reasons that we teach the overhand rack method to finish any and all relaods with a semi-auto. try hitting the slide release on a walther ppk.....

If you do this, the motion will be consistent with slide forward reloads, malfunction drills, unloading, et....

Consistency leads to greater efficiency.


Your border patrol friend has his head in the right place (looking for consistency), but he only thought the problem half-way through. Slide forward reloads are necessary for SEVERAL reasons (bad mags, after a double feed clearing, etc.). Don't do reloads with your slide-lock-lever or slide-release in the first place.

-RJP
 

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Magazine safeties are about as useful as air brakes on a sea turtle. Drop the mag and reload -- then you might be alive to pick up your magazines later.

RE: BP training. No it ain't "Gunsite", the summer camp for privileged shooters; it's focused on keeping our guys & gals in green alive and the illegal trash coming at them on the defensive. When Gunsite starts using MS13 maggots as mock adversaries, I'll sign up for a course.
 
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Gunrnr's post prompted me to re-read the intial one.
I'm not up to speed on the current BP doctrine... Do they fall under standard FLETC type doctrine?

I find it VERY hard to believe that the person you were talking to was stating an agency opinion... That sounds like a very personal perspective to me.

While the agency might prefer mag safeties for a variety of reasons, the prevention of the agent firing the gun and possibly ending up in a slide forward reload would not be one of them. If someone can find that in an official document, please let me know and I'll gladly retract that statement... but in the meantime, I wouldn't want anyone operating under that impression. The logic would be "If the Agent needs to shoot while reloading, he's better off waitin than he is firing a round and then having to rack his slide"... that seems too ludicrous for any policy.

Meanhwile, back to that original question, I'm not a fan of Mag Safeties either. When I wrote a review of the S&W 1911 a few years ago for SWAT , I commented that sooner or later, the lawyers would demand putting warnings on the sides of guns saying "This gun WILL fire with the magazine INSERTED!" to match the warnings they were putting on the non-mag safety guns.... :roll:
 

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There are tons of guys out there that will avoid a gun simply if it has a mag safety.

My Five Seven has one. The only neg of day tod ay use of a gun with a mag safety that I see if dry firing practice.

You would HAVE to have an empty mag in the gun.

Personally, a mag safety doesn't both me as long as it doesn't affect trigger pull (like it supposedly does in the Hi Power).

I personally kind of like it - an obvious way to deactivate a gun in a struggle. As the Five Seven is my night stand gun - I like that option if someone got the drop on me in my home at night. Yea, reactivating the gun is an issue - but so is getting shot with your own gun.

As for tactical reloads and such... If I need more than the 20 rounds in that gun, I got a hell of a problem... Then its time to go her my PS90... I only keep the 1 mag loaded for it anyway.
 
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