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Hey guys,
New to the forum but I've done some extensive browsing on the subject.

Looking for a .243 AR-15. While it won't be the primary purpose I've chosen the cartridge size with the hopes of using it for deer hunting.

I'm new to AR's so where do I start? Is it best to build custom? What brands to avoid? I'd like to put together a rifle for around $575-$775 (ammo is f'n expensive post build).

Sorry if I'm in the wrong place, found a few .243 threads on here but they're outdated or are a bit too lingo'd up for me. I'm new to guns (loaded my first gun about a year ago although I've shot throughout childhood with dramatic assistance).

I dig the AR concept given the low-recoil, high magazine size, and reasonable pricing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Oh I should mention I shot a Del Ton .556 the other day and loved it. First time ever shooting an AR and I managed a 7 inch spread on 15 rounds at 75 feet. My mind was blown by the simplicity and accuracy.
 

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A 243 is going to be on the AR10 platform and weigh in the neighborhood of 9-11lbs.Your budget of $575-$775 isn't going to touch a AR10 anything unfortunately.I understand want and needs,, but I believe a bolt gun would serve you much better than the AR10 vs money/weight/accuracy.
A 7" spread is terrible at 75 feet.
 

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DPMS makes (I assume they still do) an AR in .243 and .260. MSRP is about 1250. 260H - 243H

Rock River Arms used to make a .243 upper on their LAR-8 platform (AR-10), no idea on price.

Armalite's .243 upper is pushing $800... AR-10 A4 RIFLE COMPLETE .243 UPPER HALF, BLACK

Dtech sells a .243 WSSM upper for a grand... Dtech Custom AR-15 WSSM Upper Recievers - D-Tech - Custom AR-15 Upper Receivers plus a couple other 6mm rounds, not .243 Win, however.

Patriot makes one for about $2500... Patriot Ordnance R308 Rifle .243 Win 20in 20rd Black H-Ra for sale - R308-20-11H-243 - Tombstone Tactical

Olympic makes one for about 1100...

I doubt you are going to find anything in your price range in .243, in other words.
 

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I brought a Remington R-25 in .243 in for a customer last year. He liked it, but it is very picky about ammo. It would not cycle with certain loads, did not like reloads, and was generally just a finicky booger all around.
 

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The AR platform, or as some now call it the "Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR)" is available in everything from .22 LR to .50 Beowulf. While I love my bolt guns and still use them quite a bit, there's something about my ARs that just feels right and controls perfectly.

I spent a lot of time with the old M-16 (pre-A1) in the military, saved and saved to buy my first AR-15 years later (a Bushy 24" 5.56mm, great for prairie dogs) and waited several more years until I could afford an AR-10, I'll not hesitate for an instant to add another caliber to my brace of AR/MSRs with either another rifle or another upper.

The only cal I could not do would be 7.62x39...that's just...WRONG!
 

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The AR platform, or as some now call it the "Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR)" is available in everything from .22 LR to .50 Beowulf. While I love my bolt guns and still use them quite a bit, there's something about my ARs that just feels right and controls perfectly...
"Modern Sporting Rifle" huh? That's hilarious. Since when is tactical combat whether for military or police or self defense a sport?

Modern Tactical Rifle would be more appropriate.

Their design function is as a force multiplier, and they do that extremely well.

The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a modern tactical rifle is a good guy with another modern tactical rifle who also is a better shot with it.
 

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...The only cal I could not do would be 7.62x39...that's just...WRONG!
The 7.62x39 mm is simply Russia's solution to the problem of ammo that was too heavy during WW1 and at the beginning of WW2.

And it is not that far from the American solution to the same problem, which resulted in the 5.56x45 mm twenty years later.

You want the ammo to be lighter so that the doughboys can carry more of it.

And you want the load to be just powerful enough to wound a soldier on the other side, since a wounded soldier preoccupies more of the enemy than a dead one -- first aid & medic & evac now required.

These are antipersonnel rounds, not "sporting" rounds. They're not powerful enough to be sporting rounds.
 

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"Modern Sporting Rifle" huh? That's hilarious. Since when is tactical combat whether for military or police or self defense a sport?
Once upon a time the M1903 was considered a combat rifle, as was the M1917, the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine. And that's just some US millitary rifles of the last century.

Its not how the rifle/carbine was designed. Its how it is used.
 

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The 7.62x39 mm is simply Russia's solution to the problem of ammo that was too heavy during WW1 and at the beginning of WW2.

And it is not that far from the American solution to the same problem, which resulted in the 5.56x45 mm twenty years later.

You want the ammo to be lighter so that the doughboys can carry more of it.

And you want the load to be just powerful enough to wound a soldier on the other side, since a wounded soldier preoccupies more of the enemy than a dead one -- first aid & medic & evac now required.

These are antipersonnel rounds, not "sporting" rounds. They're not powerful enough to be sporting rounds.

I disagree with a few things here. A black rifle, modern modular rifle or modern sporting rifle, whatever you want to call it, is just another forn of the age old rifle. Sure it has a different form and some features that weren't available "back in the day", but it still shoots one bullet when you pull the trigger. The result is practically the same as Daniel Boones old Betsy black powder gun. Before you flame me, I do understand the differences though, but still, the same. There is no reason a modern rifle, even though it looks "tactical" cannot be used for sporting purposes. All of my "tactical" rifles are used for sporting purposes.

Sport includes hunting, plinking, target compitition, etc. Power doesn't necessarily play into all of these sports. However, if you do want to hunt, what is wrong with the 7.62x39 for deer? What is wrong with the 223/556 for varmints?
The 308 and 30-06 started off as "tactical" rifle loads and look where they are now!
 

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"Modern Sporting Rifle" huh? That's hilarious. Since when is tactical combat whether for military or police or self defense a sport?

Modern Tactical Rifle would be more appropriate.

Their design function is as a force multiplier, and they do that extremely well.

The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a modern tactical rifle is a good guy with another modern tactical rifle who also is a better shot with it.

What's so hilarious? That you can only see what the media wants you to see? No, its not hilarious. Knowing the history of hunting rifles, with the advancement of technology through the years, going hunting, target shooting, competition shooting, multi caliber use, and ergonomics would help one to understand why these rifles now a days are called Modern Sporting Rifles. The title for these fit. Seeing they are advanced in technology, able to add other helpful devices on to it, ergonomics, and they play a multi role - more than the one caliber bolt action rifles of yesteryears. Like comparing the Model T to a 2014 vehicle.


You have been explained the term Modern Sporting Rifle by a few here. Now please lets keep this thread on track. No more derailments.
 

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The 7.62x39 mm is simply Russia's solution to the problem of ammo that was too heavy during WW1 and at the beginning of WW2.

And it is not that far from the American solution to the same problem, which resulted in the 5.56x45 mm twenty years later.

You want the ammo to be lighter so that the doughboys can carry more of it.

And you want the load to be just powerful enough to wound a soldier on the other side, since a wounded soldier preoccupies more of the enemy than a dead one -- first aid & medic & evac now required.

These are antipersonnel rounds, not "sporting" rounds. They're not powerful enough to be sporting rounds.
OK, I must be in 'slow class' today. It took me a few posts to catch on to where Mr. Smith was coming from.

ANY round from ANY firearm is an "anti-presonnel" round if it's aimed at a human being. Similarly, if that round is purchased and used to poke holes in animals or paper, it's now a "sporting" round.

If you want to approach the discussion from the historical viewpoint, in WWII Soviet Union, more 9mm PPSh-41 sub-machine guns were issued than anything else as they were a force multiplier for the urban combat they were engaged in. The 9mm round is small and light and the soldier could carry hundreds of them.

What I'm starting to sense is the same attitude toward EBGs that I've come to expect from the "assault weapons are made for war" party line of the well-meaning but ignorant anti-Second Amd people I've been debating for over 30 yrs.

In any case, Math3780 started this thread asking a specific question about AR-type rifles chambered in .243 WIn (a decidedly NON-military round) and you and I and a few others have succeeded in derailing the discussion completely.
 

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"One size fits all" works as well for rifles, wars and hunting as it does for most other things in this life. The 5.56X45 may have been just the ticket for Southeast Asia. 7.62x39 worked mighty well there too. The concept of wounding the enemy and taking more combatants out of the fight is a sound military tactic, IF the enemy gives a hoot about their wounded. It is a tactic that works on us very well. Just because those two rounds worked well in those conditions doesn't mean they will work well in others. Mauser 96 Swedes were sighted for 300 meters and the 6.5x55 is deadly at that range. The Garand wasn't termed the "Greatest Battle Rifle of all Time" for any other reason than it was and I do not want to be on the receiving end of an M14 be it at 50 yards or 1000 yards.

I've never killed a deer with a 243, and probably never will, but I have killed a train car load with a 55 gr sierra from any of three different cartridges over the years. I've likely killed more with a 222 Remington than with any other firearm. Aside from the 223's the 30-30 (in 30-30 and 30 Rem) is running a distant 2nd place. The 30-06 is gonna show. The rounds that I have experienced the most difficulty with is the 35 Whelen and with deer that other people have shot with the 243. For whatever reasons The 243 has given me fits with deer to the point where I won't even have one. Everybody's gotta have something they hate. with me it's the 243.

Alan
 

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Some good points Alan. Personally, while I took one deer with a .223 many yrs ago, I would never again use one for that purpose, knowing what I know now.

I don't hunt deer any more, but when I did and where I used to hunt, it was mostly long shots and the .223/5.56mm loses too much energy too quickly for that. That said, our Mule Deer are substantially bigger and quite a bit tougher than those white tail deer in the east and midwest and our neighbors in TX go after. I don't see any advantage to .243 for mulies here in NM.

My fondness for the .243 is actually a relatively recent development. Over the past 12 or so yrs I've come to value the caliber for predators such as coyote and bobcat. Depending upon where I'm going and my mood at the moment, I like the .243 and the .22-250 AI over about any other for the kind of terrain I usually hunt.

Going back to the original topic, though, I would like to get an AR in .243. I may do so someday. But I haven't been able to find one in .22-250 (although they supposedly exist).
 

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Tactical and sniper,,,,two words that make my teeth grate.
Those are actually two of my favorite words. Ya just need ta note and spell out yer definitions ta others early in the conversation pilgrim.

Tactical -- definition -- anti-personnel applications whether for military, police, or self defense purposes.

Sniper -- definition -- a very good shot with a rifle for tactical purposes (see above, for definition of tactical).

Others of my favorite words are these:

Handgun -- definition -- a gun that you hold in your hand (R. Lee Ermey, GySgt USMC(ret.);

Handgun control -- definition -- a violation of the US Federal 2nd Amendment under Heller;

Out gunned -- definition -- somebody is a better shot and has more firepower than you do (this is why pistols have taken the place of revolvers for police and military work);

Gun proliferation -- definition -- cementing the rights of the US Federal 2nd Amendment to all peoples.
 

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Some good points Alan. Personally, while I took one deer with a .223 many yrs ago, I would never again use one for that purpose, knowing what I know now.

I don't hunt deer any more, but when I did and where I used to hunt, it was mostly long shots and the .223/5.56mm loses too much energy too quickly for that. That said, our Mule Deer are substantially bigger and quite a bit tougher than those white tail deer in the east and midwest and our neighbors in TX go after. I don't see any advantage to .243 for mulies here in NM.

My fondness for the .243 is actually a relatively recent development. Over the past 12 or so yrs I've come to value the caliber for predators such as coyote and bobcat. Depending upon where I'm going and my mood at the moment, I like the .243 and the .22-250 AI over about any other for the kind of terrain I usually hunt.

Going back to the original topic, though, I would like to get an AR in .243. I may do so someday. But I haven't been able to find one in .22-250 (although they supposedly exist).
Here is why I myself would never make the mistake of bringing a 223 or 5.56 to a deer hunt --

I simply don't have any problem with the cartridge choice of 243 for small deer hunting, although there are much better choices, such as the 270.

But I sure would not go smaller than 243 for this sized game animal. Wouldn't even consider it.

The Remington R-25 looks and functions like an ArmaLite yet in a caliber sufficient for chasing small deer or coyotes. It can do both -- sporting AND tactical.
 

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Once upon a time the M1903 was considered a combat rifle, as was the M1917, the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine. And that's just some US millitary rifles of the last century.

Its not how the rifle/carbine was designed. Its how it is used.
As was also the case with the black powder flintlock musket. You are right about that, Popeye.

The evolution of the modern semi-automatic rifles however was specifically for modern post-WW1 combat applications, invented independently by the Americans and the Italians originally (if my history is correct), perfected by the Germans, dubbed by Adolf himself, and copied by the Russians.

Semi-auto's that are too small for tactical/combat applications are often dubbed "sporting" for their competitive applications.

Flipping the definition back on itself to the bigger more powerful semi auto's which do have tactical/combat applications is simply in my opinion anachronistic.

Sporting, to me, and historically, usually means you are chasing game with it. Sure, you can chase coyotes with AR-15's but that's not what ArmaLite had in mine.
 
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