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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to know what Close Quarters Combat (CQC) optics are being used, and what is the most reliable, and cost effective for the AR-15. I am building a 16” A3 and only require accurate shots from 20 yards out to 100 yards, off hand. I am not looking to shoot this setup any further.

Trijicon ( I’m not looking at ACOG)
Aimpoint
EOTech
ATN
Burris
Are name brands thrown around, but with very little elaboration. I’m looking for FACTS, numbers and experiences. I would like to know model numbers not just name brands so that I can do further research. It would also be helpful if I could get some clarification on the difference between Holographic sights, and Reflex sights. I see Trijicon offers both - what’s better?
What is the difference between the 3.5 Minute Of Angle (MOA) and the 7.0 MOA Red dot, what are they referencing here? When we score a target we look for the MOA of the grouping, so what is the 3.5 and 7.0 MOA sights measuring … field of vision?

Please if you are going to use acronyms include the meaning first so others may learn.

I appreciate all opinions given constructively and thank you all in advance for you responses.
Be safe, and never forget.
 

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Texas Legal Gunslinger
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3,531 Posts
To start, MOA refers to "minute of angle." Did some quick research so that I could find a good way to explain it, and here is what I found....A degree of angle is further divided into 60 minutes and further 60 seconds. Minute of angle refers to the tangent of the greatest group dispersion divided by the radius (linear distance to said target). By most accounts 1/60th of one degree is considered fine accuracy. The actual dispersion of 1 MOA at 100yds is 1.0471996 inches.

So, typically, an optic of the sort you mention will list the MOA of the reticle. What it translates to is, at 100 yards, how many "minutes" of the angle does the reticle cover. The higher the MOA, the bigger the reticle. One may presume that a greater MOA will have a negative effect on accuracy, but that's more dependent upon the shooter.

Out of the optics you've mentioned, I've only used the EOTech. I found it simple to use and accurate. Eventually, I plan to put one on my AR, but for now, I'm using a Truglo Holosight until the funds come along for the upgrade. It's been satisfactory for my uses. You should be able to shoot an EOTech accurately out to 100 yards, but bear in mind that there is no built in magnification. If you were to find your accuracy declining out that far, there is a 3x magnifier that is available as well.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
TX1911
Really appreciate the reply, good stuff. I have been pounding the research the last few days and every thing you said is jiving with others out there.
Thanks for the input.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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56,078 Posts
Leedi originally had an EOTech 512 on her S&W15. Since she likes to put one bullet on top of the other, she didn't like it. She switched to a Trijicon TA31H (a pricey ACOG) and loves it.

I see the EOTech as a combat sight. It is sufficient to shoot MOM (Minute of Man) past 100 yards (but not much past). MOM is eight inches at whatever range the target is at.

The 4x32 ACOG allows much greater accuracy and allows this accuracy at greater ranges.
 

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The 500 S&W stare...
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10,304 Posts
If I am not mistaken the magnifiers for the EOTech are available in 3x and 4x. They are also available with a mount that allows you to flip them over and out of the way when you don't want magnification. They are expensive and so are the mounts but they sure are nice.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Optics

MOA, to make it easy and approximate, is that a 2 MOA red dot covers a 2" area on the target at 100yds, 4" at 200 yds, and so on. I have an EO Tech 552 and Aimpoint Comp M3 and have used the ACOG. The best is going to depend on your use. The EO Tech is the fastest sight on target I have ever used and is more than accurate enough for anything you are likely to use a 16" M4 on. I don't like it for my use, because my Bushmaster M4 is my home defense longarm and the EO Tech shuts off automatically after four or eight hours to conserve battery life and I don't want to worry about trying to turn on a sights at 3 in the morning. The battery life sucks on them, even with the sight trying to conserve it. My Aimpoint has a battery life of almost 5 years with the sight on the medium setting and is still very fast on target. It is a very reliable sight and served me well in three of my four deployments. The ACOG is a very rugged, although expensive, sight that works very well at moderate ranges, out to 600 yards or so. The ACOG can be used for CQB distances, although its magnification causes it to be much slower at these extremely close ranges. So to figure out the best sight, you need to figure out what your uses will be.

Home defense- Aimpoint
Range training and plinking- EO Tech
Distance shooting/hunting - ACOG
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Couple of opinions about CQB optics:
If you intend to mount them on an M4 (we call it a C8 IN Canada...in the army anyway) I would give some serious consideration to Leupolds CBB sight, it is a fixed power but very reliable.

I Afghanistan I used an EOTech 552 with some success but later switched out to a Leopold.

EOTech is good for nice close in targets but when the batteries are dead at the moment of truth you are going to be out of luck when looking for the recticle. Leopold is always there.

On my own M4 I have mounted an ELCAN C-79 Optical sight, not to readily avail on the market but an awesome sight none the less. This is also the standard sight on all of our military weapons...very reliable, good for distance shoots and close in stuff.

I just made a shot with it at a cometition in Southern Alberta out to 650 meters using army issue hardball ammo coming out of a 16inch Armilite barrel...

My money is with the ELCAN or more easliy aquired the Leopold.
 
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