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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got my latest "Gun Tests" mag and they compare the Kel Tec PF-9 to CZ Rami 2075 P and the H&K P7 PSP ("Squeeze Cocker"). They gave the Kel Tec an "F". Seems the "trigger function led to malfunctions" That was a bit disconcerting, given I just brought one in to sell as a CCW. I haven't fired one, and actually I haven't even had a chance to shoot my new P3-AT, either.

Anyone know anything about the PF-9?
 
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I do not read Gun Test magazine. So, I would not be able to respond without knowing the type of test or the results they achieved. So did the gun fail after the first few shots? Giving the gun an F is like saying the gun is worthless. I bet Kel-Tec doesn't advertise in Gun Test Magazine.

I would also like to add that I have two Kel-Tec pistols. P11 and a P32, never had any problems with either of them.
 

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I have a Kel-Tec 3AT that stays with me at all times. It's a hard recoiling little booger but with a lot of practice it will do it's job with in the 10 to 15 foot range. I had a few jams with it at frist but it runs fine now. I shoot about two mags through it everytime I go to the range. Just to stay tuned up with it. I'd say it takes about 200rds for it to settle down. I use Winchester WB for ammo. Just remember these little guns are not range guns and their distance is limited. Like a ex-LEO friend says they are smell their breath guns." Put it in their face and pull the trigger twice, repeat if nesasary". I been looking at the 9mm and may get one some day. :)



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Gun Tests does not accept ANY advertising - it is totally funded by subscriptions. One of their complaints with the KelTec PF-9 was that the trigger "reset" was too long and that in rapid fire, if the shooter didn't let the trigger return past the "first click" the hammer would not be set for the next shot, resulting in a "no go bang" situation. This, to me, and from some of their posted comments, is a matter of familiarization and practice.
I've subscribed off and on over the past 12 years and I have found the Gun Test "testers" to be, at times, somewhat overly critical and some of them are down right "gun snobs", often putting down the lower priced guns even before they start their tests (there are several groups of testers who contribute and live in various locales, some seem fairer in evaluations than others.) Also, in some cases they will condemn an entire model line, based upon failure of the one test piece they acquired. I think they try to be as fair and unbiased as possible, but that doesn't always come through. I view the info they provide as a "guide" not as a definitive, scientific evaluation. It's folly to judge or evaluate one piece for one or two days, when, many times, a break-in and familiarization period of a "few" range trips might be necessary to get the real picture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
32 Mag hit the nail on the head. True, GT is similar to Consumer Reports, in that it doesn't sell advertising, but yes, they do sometimes dismiss lower-priced guns out-of-hand. I could see what they mean about the trigger reset, but agree that that could be overcome with training and familiarization. But, by the same token, if one is familiar with normal double-action triggers on most other guns and then handles the PF-9, it could be difficult to remember the difference.

What I don't like about the PF-9, I just discovered, is the magazine release. It requires being pressed in way too far before the mag actually releases, and I can see where that could be a liability in a combat situation. The P3-AT has an easier mag release, which is intuitive and very easy to use, without being likely to drop a mag when not intended.

I had brought in a couple of P3-ATs and one PF-9 to have more choices for customers for CCW. I figured that I would keep one or the other for personal use. All in all I like the P3-AT much better than the PF-9 and will go ahead and keep the one I got in and go ahead and sell the PF-9, despite the caliber advantage.
 

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I suspect that kel-tec will improve the PF-9 fairly quickly if necessary. They tend to be very responsive to criticism and want happy customers. Many of their customers are police officers and their lives may depend on their back up weapons.

New products many times do not operate as designed in the field and issues can pop up. I usually never buy any new product until the shake out period is over. I bought a new P3AT 380 immediately when it was released, it later had ejector problems and they have changed the whole ejector mechanism. I wish I had waited now for a year or so and got the new version. Mine is OK but will not hand eject the unfired round in the chamber. For defense it operates as its supposed to and Kel-Tec told me to send it in for repairs if I was in any way dissatisfied. They will back up their products quickly and efficiently.

If you have a PF-9 and have any issues send it back to the factory and they will handle it quickly. They are good people!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Funny you mention their response to customer input, because my plan was to call them this week and hear what they have to say. Having only the one PF-9 and not ever having handled them before, I wanted to ask whether the mag release configuration was correct on my sample or whether it perhaps was misadjusted.

We'll see. One of the great side benefits of the internet and forums such as this one is that manufacturers know how fast news travels in the user community.
 

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I canceled my subscription to GT long time ago!!
To put it mildly, the editor is an ass.

The so called "G" model has all the tweeks and is viewed favorably by owners.

In fact, mine will be here in a couple of days.

I ordered it from Bud's over the weekend and it shipped yesterday!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Are we talking about the same model, the "PF-9"? If so, let me know what you think, denfoote, because like I said -- regardless of GT's review -- I"m really unimpressed by the magazine release. I can see real problems with that in a SHTF situation.
 

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gunrnr said:
Are we talking about the same model, the "PF-9"? If so, let me know what you think, denfoote, because like I said -- regardless of GT's review -- I"m really unimpressed by the magazine release. I can see real problems with that in a SHTF situation.
That's what I have purchased.

I was hoping to have it in my hands today, but my FFL has not recieved it yet.
That means it won't be in until Friday, which is when I have to go back to work.
I could pick it up on my way, but I don't really want to leave it in my vehicle for 12 hours. I'll probably pick it up next Tuesday. I'm all ready to take it out for it's test. I'll see how it fits, including the position of the mag release.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Looking fwd to your report. Be aware, however, that I wasn't troubled by the location of the mag release, rather the fact that it had to be pressed in so far before the mag was actually released. I'd say that the outside of the control was about 1 to 2mm below the surrounding grip when the magazine dropped.
 

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That seems to be a feature of all the KT pistols.
On both my P32 and P3AT, the button must be fully depressed before the mag releases.
I'm used to it, so I really had not noticed or thought it unusual.
When I get the new one into my hot little hands, I'll let you know.

One possible problem is going to be that, with this gun, Mec-Gar mags were not used. Something about the factory being overrun with government military orders. It seems that whoever did make the mags used a soft polymer when making the follower. With use, the cases make a rather deep gouge.



From KTOG:
This wear to the soft plastic follower is caused by the spinning extracted case hitting the follower with its rim. It only happens with the last round in the mag.

The only known cure, (So far) is to count your rounds and never shoot the last round out of the magazine. Then the wear will stop.
This information is 7 months old and KT may have corrected the problem by now.

It seems to me the solution to the problem may be as simple as looking at a DuPont catalog, picking out a more wear resistant polymer and making a phone call!!
 

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KelTec, in my opinion, has it right on. The magazine release on a pistol as small as these, should be a "positive" experience. When your fingers are all over the piece while shooting, the last thing you want to do is accidentally pop the magazine out of the gun. Again, in my opinion, it is better to be forced to "positively" press in on the mag release to eject it. A little extra effort is certainly worth the effort and comes naturally with practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I hear what you're saying, 32Mag, but it's a little more than that. On my P3-AT, a positive press on the release is necessary, but it can be done without repositioning the pistol. The PF9 requires a complete change of position -- it almost requires two hands. I still haven't contacted KT, but if this is the way they designed it, I think there's a real problem. Again, I don't know. I've only sold a few P3-ATs and no other KT products, so I'm not extremely familiar with their idiosyncrasies.
 

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I have the same problem with my PPK/S.

The mag release button is to high on the frame for my thumb to reach.

However, the Kel-Tecs are just right as is the Kahr MK9.

It's just a question of ergonomics, I guess!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Guys, I wish I could better explain what's going on with the PF-9. The mag release is in the right place -- it's NOT a question about position.

Have you ever had a car door handle that didn't open the door unless you over-extended it? A button that a simple push didn't work, but you had to push beyond the designed limit? I wish I could capture it with a photo, but I can't.

The ergonomics are fine. The Press-o-nomics suck.
 

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After actually experiencing the part in question, I tend to agree. It seems the mag release is plastic. There is clamboring to redesign the part, making it metal.
I can live with it, but I'm not happy about it!!
 

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While I like to read the various gun tests in the different gun/shooting magazines, I've learned to take ALL of them with a large grain of salt. They all have their particular agenda (whether they admit it or not) and tend to slant their reviews one way or the other depending on the point they want to make. In this case, it was obvious the tester favored the higher end, more well appointed pistols. Concerning the PF-9, the article was comparing apples and oranges. Comparing the PF-9 to the RAMI or HK's P7 is like comparing a Ford F150 truck to a Chevy Tahoe or Lincoln Navigator SUV. It's a no win situation for both the Ford and the Kel-Tec! Instead, the K-T should be taken on it's own merits or at least compared to guns of similar features, size and prize. I own a PF-9 and while it's not in the same class as the other guns, it's still more than adequate for the job it was designed to do and sells for from 1/2 (CZ) to 1/4 (HK) the price of the other two guns.

For a better comparison, I would recommend a pistol like K-T's P-3AT or maybe the Bersa 380. I think I can speak with a bit of authority about them since I own (or have previously owned) all the guns mentioned here. I currently own two CZ's, the PF and P3 and have owned a P7, though not currently. Essentially, the PF-9 is a P-3AT beefed up to handle the 9mm round. They look the same, have similar controls and the fit/finish are the same. The major difference (other than caliber and size of the PF) is the PF's slide locks back while the P3's doesn't. If you like the P-3AT, you'll probably like the PF. In fact, I got a PF-9 to replace my P-3AT - it is on permanent "loan" to my wife - to get the extra power of the 9mm in a gun that's still VERY easy to carry and conceal and can be bought for $300 or less. The same is true comparing the PF-9 to the Bersa 380 (my wifes favorite carry psitol). They are the same size, similar in price and fire the same number of rounds, but the PF is a 9mm compared to the Bersa's .380 caliber.

I've had my PF-9 for about 6 months. While it is definitely not a range gun, I have fired about 200 rounds through it without any problems and can keep my shots in a 3" circle at 10 yards... more than adequate at the range 99% of all self-defense shootings take place at, and often much less. Also, my gun has the modified barrel/feed ramp that K-T is now using, so that may explain the lack of FTF problems earlier guns experienced. FWIW, both the CZ and HK are much better guns overall than the K-T, from fit & finish to how the gun handles and shoots. OTOH, the PF-9 and the P-3AT/P-32 are built to be carried a lot - and do it very well, I might add - and shoot a little, which is what most good personal defense guns are designed to do. They also do what they do at a fraction of the price of the other guns mentioned.

There are time when it's nice to have a Lincoln or a BMW, but there are other times when what you really need is that Ford truck. The K-T is that truck.

Below is a link to a photo of my wifes Bersa next to my PF-9 if you want to compare the two guns. I tried to download the image here, but couldn't get it to work.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5696&d=1185468042
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The door handles on my Ford trucks work. The magazine release on my P3-AT works. I can't say the same for my PF-9. That's not the Gun Tests Magazine crew talking, it's me. Humble owner with normal size fingers and normal strength hands.

P3-AT work = Good
PF-9 no workee = Not Good.
 

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Well, mine's off to the womb.
It seems that the dreaded ejector pin drift has struck again!!
Other than that, the gun acted fine!!
I did get used to the mag release.
 
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