National Gun Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
DSCN1939.jpg DSCN1940.jpg DSCN1941.jpg DSCN1943.jpg
Recently picked this gun up. I can't find any information on "J Butler" it appears to be a 10 gauge as a 12 gauge round is too small. It says Chicago, Illinois on the top of the barrels. Under the break it is stamped with crossed swords with a crown on top and a "v" in the lower quadrant.

I am wondering what to do with it. Any information on dating it will help immensely. Should I part it out so other guns may live on? Make it a wallhanger? Is it worth anything?

Thanks, any and all info will be greatly appreciated!!

Rob
 

·
.
Joined
·
5,082 Posts
View attachment 6799 View attachment 6800 View attachment 6801 View attachment 6802
Recently picked this gun up. I can't find any information on "J Butler" it appears to be a 10 gauge as a 12 gauge round is too small. It says Chicago, Illinois on the top of the barrels. Under the break it is stamped with crossed swords with a crown on top and a "v" in the lower quadrant.

I am wondering what to do with it. Any information on dating it will help immensely. Should I part it out so other guns may live on? Make it a wallhanger? Is it worth anything?

Thanks, any and all info will be greatly appreciated!!

Rob

You can go here for example and study some proofs..or just search - early black powder
shotgun proofs and markings...etc...for others...

But the crown over swords is "usually" a definitive mark that means the "Birmingham"
(England) armory inspected the arm..typically by over loading the powder for one
shot to make sure weapon passed...

Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks

The "J Butler"...if not an owner...was probably a dealer/seller of the time...same as
Sears sold/stamped weapons etc....the shotgun could be English or Belgian or
American...? Only a close examination can maybe tell, and maybe not...

Either way...definitely a wall hanger/conversation piece...worth what a party would
pay ....$100 or less as judged by similar such old shotguns per web pricing and
auctions past....



1shot1k
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you so much! I would guess Butler was dealer as I look at it more it says "BUTLER CHICAGO, ILLINOIS" on the top of the barrels. I see it dates 1812-1904 (quite the range), perhaps I can search for business licenses for Butler and narrow the date range.

Could you tell me what to look for to differ American/Belgian/English?

Thanks again,

Rob
 

·
.
Joined
·
5,082 Posts
Hopefully someone may come along and help you more.

There may be markings under the front rests...? Or inside the receiver etc...

And...the marks may have been obliterated...or...perhaps not marked anyway as
to a make...sometimes experts know from the hammer/designs...etc...?


Also..go to new members thread and say hello....lots of good folks here...if they
see somebody there they may be more likely to help with the posts/questions of
somebody who has just joined....etc...

good luck in your searching...

1shot1k
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thank you, I have introduced myself on the new members forum. I also took the front rest off and there was everything I needed! The only marking I don't understand is "ROSES" is stamped on one barrel. But thank you so much for helping a newbie!
 

·
.
Joined
·
5,082 Posts
Thank you, I have introduced myself on the new members forum. I also took the front rest off and there was everything I needed! The only marking I don't understand is "ROSES" is stamped on one barrel. But thank you so much for helping a newbie!


Well...in the interest of me or anybody checking further on the "ROSES" stamp...
did you find anything else more than you have shared so far....?


a date...other mark, a maker.....what was under fore end,...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
DSCN1963.jpg

I found these markings, with the link you posted I was able to narrow the date range, the only markings I don't understand are "11" and "ROSES".
 

·
.
Joined
·
5,082 Posts
View attachment 6805

I found these markings, with the link you posted I was able to narrow the date range, the only markings I don't understand are "11" and "ROSES".
Common for name of barrel maker to be placed underneath, as on yours...

This is some text about similar stamp (Rose) under barrel of an Enfield (sold to Confederate
forces ) rifle at auction...


"The bottom of the barrel is marked Rose’s Patent. Aaron Rose (and later Rose Brothers) was a Gun, Rifle & Pistol Barrel maker located at 33 Bath Street in the 1850’s and at 13 Newton Street from 1860-1870.They held British Patent #13299 issued on October 24, 1850 for making “twisted gun barrels”, and their barrels were typically marked with their patent mark."


 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,344 Posts
Do not attempt to shoot that shotgun. It likely has Damascus barrels and will not withstand the pressures of modern ammunition. There is likely no real demand for parts for or from it either. Best place for that old gal is oiled up nice and hung on the wall. She'll do nicely in that capacity.

Alan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
Another reason not to fire it is the cracked stock visible in
one of the pictures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Oh I never thought about firing it, I value my limbs! I was wondering if the parts could go on to save other guns, but since that's not the case i will sell it as is. Thanks so much for the info and kind words! I'm glad I chose this forum!
 

·
.
Joined
·
5,082 Posts
Oh I never thought about firing it, I value my limbs! I was wondering if the parts could go on to save other guns, but since that's not the case i will sell it as is. Thanks so much for the info and kind words! I'm glad I chose this forum!
You are most welcome as to any help I may have been.



1shot1k
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top