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Harley Dude
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Europe for years has used smaller calibres for police work and military use. The Germans always felt that the 9mm was a big calibre. The 32 was used in many countries for years and considered adequate.

Do you think Americans are a bit power hungry with their need for big calibre handgun rounds? Similar to our choice of high powered autos as compared to the European small gas efficient autos?
 
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Macho crap. We think that inaccuracy and lack of practice can be made up for by buying hand cannons.

Lee, you know that a .32 is always on me.

Doug
 

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Beretta 92 Fanatic
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547 Posts
I am perfectly happy with 9mm. I don't care to go below 380 power, but I think 9mm is plenty - Shot placement is the most important thing.
 

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Premium Member
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Yeppers. I would go down to a .380 as well..... I dont know how good my shot placement is after getting the crap scared out of me.... -I
 

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Harley Dude
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Travis said:
Yeppers. I would go down to a .380 as well..... I dont know how good my shot placement is after getting the crap scared out of me.... -I

Yep, I remember when my trainer cranked the target back at me and give me three rounds in the gun and a loaded clip on the table and said, "Stop Him!" Oh Crap, a moving target. That changed the nature of my pretty little two inch groups pretty darn quick.
 

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Banned
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I use whatever I'm good with whether it be a 9mm or a .44 magnum. I plan on using my Security Six (.357 mag) as a CCW when I'm 21.
 
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Advancements in bullet technology and ballistics have made the 9 mm round much more effective now than it was in the past.

I like powR'ball +P 9 mm ammo myself.
 

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Dethlokk said:
Not necessarily.

The 9mm Parabellum was invented in Germany around the turn of the century, and came to prominence during World War II. If I'm not mistaken, the Germans used it for the purpose of wounding the enemy, not killing him. Their strategy was to wound one combatant so that two of his comrades would have to carry him off the frontlines, thus removing three combatants from the battlefield. Because of its mild stopping power, the 9mm was the perfect cartridge for filling the niche of a round that could effectively do this.

The .45 ACP, on the other hand, was first put into large-scale production for military use during the Philippine-American War, when the American soldiers found that their .38 caliber service revolvers simply weren't enough for quickly putting down the aggressive native warriors charging the frontlines.

The bottom line is, the .45 ACP has proven itself to be a more effective manstopper than the 9mm, as have other large calibers like it. The larger the caliber, the larger the hole, the greater the stopping power. -I

Of course this only applies to those shooting FMJ ammo. Those of us with hollow points Have the advantage anyway.
 
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The 9mm is perfectly suitable for defense with good JHPs. In FMJ, the 9mm and .45 are both less effective.

Once again the gunny internet/urban myths come out. The actual results from the Philippine Insurrection show no clear evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that the reissued .45s were any better than the .38s they replaced. In fact, the soldiers there often suffered failures to stop with their Krag rifles and sometimes even shotguns, both of which are obviously far more potent than any piddly pistol, .45 included.

Please produce some evidence of the German war strategy of "shooting to wound." The Germans mainly used pistols to execute people with a shot to the back of the head, not for shooting on the battlefield. You also hear this same cockamamie "wounding" myth about the adoption of the 5.56mm round by the USA. :roll:

The .45 isn't the Thunder Hammer of Thor. It's just another pistol, and not a terribly powerful one at that. All pistols that are controllable enough to use for defense are basically weak weapons.
 

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I had the Beretta 9 for a long time.
Then I started reading that too many police departments were having problems stopping a man with the first shot if they were large or on drugs.
I upgraded to the 4045 Mini Cougar by Beretta and never looked back.
If the .45 acp was good enough for the Army all those years it will work for me.
I had to shoot a kid who pulled a knife on my while I was on duty in the Army and would not stop advancing. I aimed for the leg and it stopped him cold.
 
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9mm is about as low as I will go. IMO, the size of the hole is offset by the amount of holes available (mag cap) and the ability to punch them in faster.

I carry .45 and .40, but I think the 9mm round is sufficient for others to carry.
 

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I use whatever I'm good with whether it be a 9mm or a .44 magnum.
I completely agree with that. If you trained enough and know how to use your weapon, a few well place 9mm rounds can be quite effective (or a whole 17 round magazine if you are fast enough -I )

When using the same kind of bullets, I don't think there's much difference in the common defence calibers like 9mm, .40 s&w, .45 acp, ect. Some are slightly more powerful, the other has less recoil and allows for a higher magazine capacity.

If you can shoot the gun, caliber doesn't matter that much.

Europe for years has used smaller calibres for police work and military use
I wondered about the difference between European and American police firearms too. The Germans for example just recently (well a few years ago maybe) bought new guns for certain police departments. Among the new pistols are the H&K P2000, H&K P30 and Walther P99 DAO. All those pistols can be had in .40 S&W too. But they stick to the 9mm para caliber. Unlike some Americans, they all seem to feel well armed with that caliber (as do I). So I guess with the right bullet design (they don't use traditional HPs, they use "HPs" with plastic tips) and shot placement the 9mm round brings the desired results.
 
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I've got more than a few 9mm's - haven't ever cared for them - still don't - lots of reasons.
Shot placement is everything, of course, but I'd MUCH rather place a .45ACP, .44 or a .357
in the torso ten ring.
 

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keninaz said:
And I must add that almost any round will kill if your shot is well placed.
That's how I feel about it too. :arrow: I like my 45's better for stopping a home invasion, -I -I -I but sometimes it's a 9mm by my side. :-B-:
 
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My 9mm is loaded with Federal HydraShok 124 gr +P+. Goes in like a lamb, out like a lion. Everything in between is turned to jelly.
I also have a supply of CorBon 147gr +P. Slightly less velocity but larger weight.
My federal LEO son is required to attend every autopsy involving a service member killed in his jurisdiction.. He assures me the 9mm is plenty nasty, especially the Hydra Shok which peals back like the pedals on an opening flower. Sort of like a miniature propellor going through the body.
Obviously the .45 ACP will do a better job, that's a no brainer- larger round at a higher velocity. But dead is dead. You get run over by a Chevy Impalla, you're dead, get run over by a Tahoe, you're dead.
Different strokes for different folks.
 
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