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Wonder what having the weight of the rounds toward the back of the gun would have in pointing the gun?
I find rifles that are too light in the front tend to have me drifting trying to hold my bead on target
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Just a thought. There are Aguila mini shells on the market. Their distribution is limited by the unreliable feeding in standard action shotguns (2-3/4”-3”). Development of a short 1-3/4” action may accomplish both reliable feeding of mini shells and higher capacity at the same time using existing mag feeding systems.

It’s a section of the market that has underutilized potential. Shorter, faster strokes, smaller external magazines for box fed shotguns...
That is a whole new topic, but I am going to answer it here.

"Just a thought"
If you are able to think, that means you are human. ;)

"There are Aguila mini shells on the market"
I did some research about this type of shells and yes they have some advantages over regular, conventional shells... for double barrel and pump action shotguns.

"Development of a short 1-3/4” action may accomplish both reliable feeding of mini shells and higher capacity at the same time using existing mag feeding systems."
First, developing a new action from the ground up for just one type of ammo would be useless and too expensive to make (economically speaking), even for a brand like Mossberg, Remington, Browning/Winchester ect... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", since the problem does not come from the gun, but from the cartridge. Shorter means less powder, less powder means less gas pressure (also less recoil), and less gas pressure means no enough gas for the piston to run the action, that is why it fails to extract (because extraction is the first problem with those shells, even if you chambered only one mini shell, feeding issues come after that...). This was the example for a gas operated shotgun (since I do not trust the Remington Versamax), but I am sure mini shells could work in inertia operated or short recoil shotguns (not sure for long recoil actions tho), if you want to keep it semi-auto. This type of shells is meant to be used in double barrels, single shot and SOME pump action shotguns (with modifications), so manual actions. Also, do not forget that 12ga shotguns are meant to be versatile firearms, so you can shoot all types of loads without making "any" modifications to the action or mechanism. If you decide to make a shotgun that can only shoot mini shells and nothing else, you totally miss the point and nobody is going to buy it because of the price of the gun, price of the shells (around 15-20$ for a box of 20) and lack of parts since it is a new design.

"smaller external magazines for box fed shotguns..."
At this point, if it is the magazine that bothers you, buy an AR pistol like a CMMG Banshee in .45ACP for good firepower, more capacity, glock magazine compatible and less complexity, because a 5 mini shells magazine is ridiculous.
Or keep the high capacity and put it in a regular sized box magazine by converting it into a horseshoe-like magazine (sorry for the bad drawing)
120031
 

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First, developing a new action from the ground up for just one type of ammo would be useless and too expensive to make (economically speaking)
If this were true, we’d never have new cartridges. Further, Aguila, Federal and Challenger are all manufacturing minishells.

In addition, I am referring to shortening an existing design. It’s not a ground up redesign, neither is the design you have suggested.

Shorter means less powder, less powder means less gas pressure (also less recoil), and less gas pressure means no enough gas for the piston to run the action, that is why it fails to extract (because extraction is the first problem with those shells, even if you chambered only one mini shell, feeding issues come after that...)
If this were true, bird shot wouldn’t cycle in semi autos. That is controlled by the gas ring.

Also, do not forget that 12ga shotguns are meant to be versatile firearms, so you can shoot all types of loads without making "any" modifications to the action or mechanism. If you decide to make a shotgun that can only shoot mini shells and nothing else, you totally miss the point and nobody is going to buy it because of the price of the gun, price of the shells
Last time I checked, mini shells are made for every available use that a full size shell can accomplish.

"smaller external magazines for box fed shotguns..."
At this point, if it is the magazine that bothers you, buy an AR pistol like a CMMG Banshee in .45ACP for good firepower, more capacity, glock magazine compatible and less complexity, because a 5 mini shells magazine is ridiculous.
Now who’s missing the point? Did you just compare 350 ft lbs of .45 ACP and 1250 ft lbs of 12 ga mini slug? Not really a comparison, but I’ll just leave this one alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Wonder what having the weight of the rounds toward the back of the gun would have in pointing the gun?
I find rifles that are too light in the front tend to have me drifting trying to hold my bead on target
I cannot answer that question, since every shooter has his own way to feel and handle a firearm, in that case a shotgun...
 

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Discussion Starter #25
If this were true, we’d never have new cartridges. Further, Aguila, Federal and Challenger are all manufacturing minishells.
In addition, I am referring to shortening an existing design. It’s not a ground up redesign, neither is the design you have suggested.
If this were true, bird shot wouldn’t cycle in semi autos. That is controlled by the gas ring.
Last time I checked, mini shells are made for every available use that a full size shell can accomplish.
Now who’s missing the point? Did you just compare 350 ft lbs of .45 ACP and 1250 ft lbs of 12 ga mini slug? Not really a comparison, but I’ll just leave this one alone.
By one type of ammo, I mean one category which is "mini shells".
Shortening is far from being simple, since you actually have to redesign receiver, bolt, shell carrier and gas piston/gas system, because those shells do not permit a gas operated shotgun to cycle reliably:
About bird shot, some do not actually cycle well and are meant to be used in O/U or pump action shotguns, same thing for some target loads and mini shells, which fit in this category.
Yes, mini shells are in fact made for every available use that a full size shell can accomplish, only if they do not turn your semi-auto into a jamming single shot or it will make you crazy pretty fast.
After all that, they do perform fantastically well in manually operated shotguns.
About the .45ACP vs 12ga mini slug, I am wrong all the line. I was in a defense type of scenario, not the target shooting one...
 

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We have gotten off the topic of your design aspersions. A couple things I want to point out and I’m going to bow out of the conversation. Well designed semi auto shotguns have different gas rings depending upon the power of the load. I have a few. People run into issues with semi automatic shotguns when they are using a one size fits all gas system.

Mini shells jam because they are too small for the action they are being run in. Try to imagine running a 308 win size case in a magnum length action designed for a 300 win mag or 338 Lapua Magnum. Automatic chambering would be a nightmare.

By themselves, mini shells do not function in most pump action shotguns either. The blocks you can buy for pump action shotguns actually do work because it shortens the action. It’s literally just a block placed in the bottom of the receiver to prevent the over travel of the shell.

I wish you the best of luck in you endeavors.
 
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