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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
https://gunowners.org/na03262020/?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=na-alert-2020-03-26

It has form fields for personal information as name, email address and home address. In the body of the message is the clause "gun owners like me". Wouldn't it be imprudent to send ATF a message with your personal information?

Wouldn't it be even more imprudent to reveal to ATF that "you are a gun owner"? I never ever feel it wise to reveal such information to one's elected officials.

ATF doesn't seem like a very reputable and trustworthy federal agency to me. I feel they might use this information to keep tabs on whoever owns guns and where they live for possible future raids and gun grabs. This is why I don't even like background checks at gun stores. Too much personal information might be kept by fed. govt. for national gun registration and other possible bad things. I think the less Big Brother knows about one's personal business, the better.

Here's what might be wise if one were to send this message to the ATF. Make sure your IP address is spoofed as with a proxy or VPN. Use a phony email address, name and home address in the form fields to secure one's true personal information. One will not be able to send the message unless the form fields are filled with something.


Here is an interesting article:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/does-the-atf-already-have-a-national-gun-registry/


"Regardless, the bottom line remains the same: the ATF maintains a national gun registry. It may not be complete or up-to-date, but if you buy a gun through an FFL, the chances are the feds will keep a record of the transaction. Maybe not now, but soon. And forever."

“If I were to select a jack-booted group of fascists who are perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF.” Rep. John Dingell (D-MI).
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I never gave the Make or Serial Number of any firearms I sold or transferred, So where do they get this information from?
So, what information does the ATF really have on YOU or your GUN when you buy a gun from a gun shop? It would never be prudent to disclose one's SSN even if you have to wait a bit longer to get the gun. I don't like to provide the govt. any more than is lawfully required about anything. The less they know, the better. I prefer gun sales where the ATF is kept out of it altogether.

What I used to be told was that the FFL dealer kept the 4473 for 30 days then supposedly discarded it into the shredder.

The Gun Control Act of 1968, The National Firearms Act of 1934 and the ATF all violate the 2nd A grossly.

 

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Even here in Canada long guns are not registered and you can sell them to anyone with a gun license, they tried to register them in Quebec but anyone could buy them in other provinces and bring them in, it was absolutely useless and they just stopped cause it cost too much and was so useless it was ridiculous. And in the US it's also handguns... same uselessness
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Paranoia is a far worse contagion than Coronavirus ever will be...
Placing value on one's privacy is not "paranoia". Ask any FFL dealer that's ever been raided by these ATF thugs if they are paranoid.
 

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Placing value on one's privacy is not "paranoia". Ask any FFL dealer that's ever been raided by these ATF thugs if they are paranoid.
You're an IDIOT !! Build your own at home and then let the Government figure out if you have guns.

You will be the one that lets the "THUGS" in the door and rat on everyone you know that owns guns to save your self.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
You're an IDIOT !! Build your own at home and then let the Government figure out if you have guns.

You will be the one that lets the "THUGS" in the door and rat on everyone you know that owns guns to save your self.
That's just not correct. My IQ is 117. Idiot? Can we please keep a civil tongue here? I am no gunsmith. It can be quite a challenge these days to buy a gun through a private sale cash-and-carry.

Most private sellers these paranoid days want to run prospective buyers through a background check. There is very limited selection of guns on the private market. Period. Some of these used jalopies on Armslist are beat up or have hidden mechanical defects so be careful. You might be very hard-pressed to find the gun you want and in the condition you want at any price unless you go through an FFL dealer. In short, it's tough, if not impossible, to get a quality, brand-new commercially-manufactured modern firearm these days without the fed. govt.'s knowing about it.

There are lot of late-model autoloading pistols (Smith, Colt, HK, Glock) on Armslist but that's about the bulk of what's on the private market. A like-new DA Colt or Smith & Wesson revolver, Weatherby Vanguard hunting rifle or Benelli Nova shotgun for fowl is going to be quite rare and/or pricey from a private seller. Expect to pay a king's ransom for a mint-like Beretta Silver Pigeon over/under or any genuine Colt AR-15 on Armslist if you can even find one there. There are some revolvers there but cheesy stuff like Charter Arms and Taurus.


The govt. has made cowards of the many sheeple of the fold. My brother got a quality 2nd-hand Glock 21 .45 ACP at a private seller's bench at a gun show in ID back in 2002. $500 legal tender cash. The gun seemed in like-new condition then. No questions asked. Things have really changed over the past 20 years or so.
 
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When you fill out a 4473 the only info that gets transmitted to the ATF is your personal info and they type of gun you are buying which is long gun, handgun or other. No make, model, serial number, caliber etc is given to the ATF. They forms are not shredded. They have to retain them for at least 10 years. There is no way for them to have a registry of who has what especially since you can sell them. The only time the ATF sees those forms is if they are investigating a crime and tracing a firearm and they have to visit the shop and physically go through the paper forms or when a gun shop closes down they are required to turn in the form they have. With that they could make a registry but it would be very small and more than likely very inaccurate.
 

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That's just not correct. My IQ is 117. Idiot? Can we please keep a civil tongue here?

There is very limited selection of guns on the private market. Period. Some of these used jalopies on Armslist are beat up or have hidden mechanical defects so be careful. You might be very hard-pressed to find the gun you want and in the condition you want at any price unless you go through an FFL dealer. In short, it's tough, if not impossible, to get a quality, brand-new commercially-manufactured modern firearm these days without the fed. govt.'s knowing about it.

There are lot of late-model autoloading pistols (Smith, Colt, HK, Glock) on Armslist but that's about the bulk of what's on the private market. A like-new DA Colt or Smith & Wesson revolver, Weatherby Vanguard hunting rifle or Benelli Nova shotgun for fowl is going to be quite rare and/or pricey from a private seller. Expect to pay a king's ransom for a mint-like Beretta Silver Pigeon over/under or any genuine Colt AR-15 on Armslist if you can even find one there. There are some revolvers there but cheesy stuff like Charter Arms and Taurus.


The govt. has made cowards of the many sheeple of the fold. My brother got a quality 2nd-hand Glock 21 .45 ACP at a private seller's bench at a gun show in ID back in 2002. $500 legal tender cash. The gun seemed in like-new condition then. No questions asked. Things have really changed over the past 20 years or so.
Try this guy, , [email protected] via undergroundassaultrifle.comf that don't work, go to sleazy part of town and tell them what you want and you'll have. NO Sniveling about prices and no crying your not a gun smith. My 10 yr old grandson built his own rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Try this guy, , i[email protected] via undergroundassaultrifle.com

f that don't work, go to sleazy part of town and tell them what you want and you'll have. NO Sniveling about prices and no crying your not a gun smith. My 10 yr old grandson built his own rifle.
I don't like to do sleazy business. I believe in honest and fair trade. I don't want an "assault rifle". I'm happy with pump shotguns and revolvers for personal security along with German shepherds. I trust the military and/or national guard will protect me should the Commies or those with towels over their heads try to invade. I believe the enemies of the American Way and the American dream lie on the Asian continent, on Capitol Hill and in various state capitols and particularly in those blue areas of maps. I believe the Demos have failed to keep unsavory folks off American soil and those unsavory folks hail from the Asian continent. Most of us don't have the proper skills, training, materials or equipment to build quality handguns, rifles and shotguns for scratch. We also need plans. One might need an elaborate machine shop. Modern gun factories have millions of dollars in tools and equipment. For example, what equipment might be needed to make an exact copy of a Colt Cobra .38 revolver? What was that cowboy movie with Raquel Welch whereby Clint Eastwood's character crafts a six-shooter entirely from scratch? No, Ernest Borgnine and Robert Culp was in it and so was Christopher Lee (gunsmith, Bailey, in Mexico), Hannie Caulder. 1971. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannie_Caulder
 

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OH Yeah the NRA pulls that garbage time to Time to need an update on serials for "INSURANCE" purposes.. Yeah as if I`d ever respond
 
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