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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have shot a full automatic rifle and think it's a waste of good ammo. After the first few rounds, unless you're shooting a mounted weapon, you just spray lead in the general direction of the target.
I don't have a problem with someone owning one, if that turns them on. They aren't inherently dangerous. The danger of any gun is zero, it's the person on the operating end that can be dangerous.

Have to admit though that I run the Ponderosa Gun site every few days to see and hear the sound of that 50 BMG mounted on the flat bed truck. That rocks! :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have shot a full automatic rifle and think it's a waste of good ammo. After the first few rounds, unless you're shooting a mounted weapon, you just spray lead in the general direction of the target.
Have you had training on how to shoot one, though? With proper technique, a lot of submachine guns are a breeze to control, and good shooting can also be done with 5.56mm weapons like the M4/M16 series. Full-auto 7.62mm rifles like the FAL are indeed a waste, but crew-served weapons like M60s and M240Bs are easy to control.

I have no personal interest in owning one either, since I don't find auto fire remotely fun, but with good technique and the right weapon they aren't uncontrollable.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ive been threw a couple courses for fullauto and ive got a little practical experiance with them, but i still cant justify the cost
 

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I have to agree that a full auto is VERY over rated. My first FA gun I shot was a Thompson. It's a very fun gun and easy to control due to the weight of the gun, but thinking about how expensive it would be to have to pay for the ammo myself definately turns me off. I don't need a full auto. I learned how to bump fire at a young age. As far as NFA items/guns go, I am more intrigued by SBSs, SBRs, and suppressors. At least I can afford those as soon as I get out of Cali. Hopefully by the time I'm 21, the 86' ban will be lifted and I can afford a FA.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maser said:
Hopefully by the time I'm 21, the 86' ban will be lifted and I can afford a FA.
That will likely never happen, especially with a Democratic Congress and probably White House in '08. Better get a good job if you want autos.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i can roll my trigger pretty fast. when they are the same price as a semi then ill consider it but im not holding my breath
 

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The M16A1 and M14 were my first FA. M14 impossible to be accurate on FA (at least for me) M16 better but I felt FA was still a waste of rounds. My most fun was with the M60 and the old Ma Duece - now that was rock and roll! :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
As mentioned, the '86 ban on new F/A weapons to civilians will likely never be lifted. Not many law makers are even willing to discuss it, there is no support for it in any of the pro-gun lobbies and the anti-gun folks would surely have a field day with any law maker that proposed such a change.

I am a class III manufacturer, dealer and transfer dealer. I enjoy shooting F/A as much as the next guy. I would have to say that I defiantly do not agree about the accuracy issue (or lack thereof) as noted above. With training and practice an individual can get very accurate with most F/A weapons. I have personally seen shooters (standing, unsupported) put 26 of 28 rounds of 5.56 from a 11.5" M16 into the center circle of an IDPA target at 25 yards in both "mag dump" and "finger controlled burst" mode. (Finger controlled burst means they were shooting a F/A gun, not a 3 rd burst gun). It is all about the training and skill level of the operator. Granted, a M14 would be pretty difficult to do the same with but a "very" skilled shooter can still keep all shots on an IDPA target at 25 yards shooting in the same modes.

That said, the civilian "need" for F/A is pretty much non-existent. You would have quite a hard time convincing me, (much less the liberal media and most "sheepeople") of the fact that you "need" a F/A for personal protection or much of anything else for that matter. Even most LEOs have no "need" for F/A. S/A patrol carbine, yes, without question, but not F/A.

However, as an investment, there is not much in the way of "normal" commodities that can even come close to the return on investment that machine guns have shown over the last 20 years. Just imagine if you ad bought 100 drop in AR15 auto sears in January of 1986 for about $50 each. You would have had to pay the $200 tax on them so you would have had $25,000 invested in parts and registration fees. Today those same registered drop in auto sears are selling for about $10k each. Yep, that's right, your $25k investment is now worth One Million Dollars. Show me any stock or other commodity that has done that....

In 1986 an M16 was about $700-900 (plus $200 registration) now they are $12-16 (or more).

The longer you wait, the more they will cost. There is a limited (and decreasing) number available. As time goes on the limited number will decrease as some are lost, (yes, people have "lost" their registered machine guns, there was a group of 5 or 6 of them lost when a pleasure boat sank in the Atlantic a few years ago, things do happen...). Some will be destroyed through carelessness and neglect and so forth. Just like collector cars, coins and stamps. As the available number of them goes down and the more and more people want them, the value just goes up and up.

This is one of the few investments that you can get into, have fun with (while exercising a reasonable amount of caution to enjoy but not overly abuse it) and in 5-10 years make a pretty decent return on your money.

Just some food for thought...

Your mileage may vary. :)
 

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bat1159man said:
M14 impossible to be accurate on FA (at least for me)

No matter how bad you think you were, I bet I was 100x worse when I first shot one of them bad boys. Sure gave my uncle and his friends a good laugh. My poor poor shoulder. :cry:



Jon-Anvil_Arms said:
That said, the civilian "need" for F/A is pretty much non-existent. You would have quite a hard time convincing me, (much less the liberal media and most "sheepeople") of the fact that you "need" a F/A for personal protection or much of anything else for that matter. Even most LEOs have no "need" for F/A. S/A patrol carbine, yes, without question, but not F/A.

It's not a question of what we "need". If I am an upstanding US Citizen and I am not a criminal and I am a law abider, then I should be able to own ANY type of firearm I choose to. We don't "need" fast cars or muscle cars, but rather we choose to own them. Why should guns be any different?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It's not a question of what we "need". If I am an upstanding US Citizen and I am not a criminal and I am a law abider, then I should be able to own ANY type of firearm I choose to. We don't "need" fast cars or muscle cars, but rather we choose to own them. Why should guns be any different?
I think you're misunderstanding Jon's post (though I hesitate to speak for him). I mean, the guy is in the business of selling guns - do you really think he'd object to opening his market by, oh say, 10,000%?

I think he means that FAs don't have a practical use for civilians. I agree with him. Hell, even in the military we use our M4s on semiauto 99% of the time. FA is fun for some people, but it's a pretty useless feature for any practical use of a weapon in civilian life.

Hell, I'm not even totally convinced things like M4geries and neutered AKs are very practical for armed citizens - which is what I am when I am not deployed with the Guard - but that doesn't mean I think they should be banned.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The cheapest full auto to shoot is the 9mm. If I had the cash, that is the one I would want. Have you noticed the ammo prices lately. Even 9mm is getting up there.
 

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kissgoodnight said:
The cheapest full auto to shoot is the 9mm. If I had the cash, that is the one I would want. Have you noticed the ammo prices lately. Even 9mm is getting up there.

Actually the cheapest would be a .22LR. Not sure if there really was a market for FA .22LRs prior to 1986, but I do know that back then there were lots of drop-in trigger groups and bolt assemblies for the Ruger 10/22 that were sold and if you're lucky enough to find them parts that are registered as pre-ban, then you can have some serious cheap fun. :twisted:
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As a military retire, I always loved a mad minute - thats full auto untill the gun is empty. In combat
we taught 3Rd bursts, but most of the time it came out 4 or 5 RND's, as said above rifle fire with 7,62 is mostly a waste. But give me a 9mm or 5.56 and we could snap shot 2 or 3Rnd's up to 100 Yd's and get them every time with quick kill training, I'm sorry they still don't train it. For a shear wall of bad ass, Felushette Rnd's from a 12 Ga. auto is it. - sorry im getting carried away, I agree with the class 3 builder, move to a gun frendly state & invest in what ever you can afford!!!!!!!!!! :--- :-B-:
 

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Most of these things are little more than high priced toys. Very high priced, I might add. I don't like the fact the price has been driven up by a law. Laws can change. Stranger things have in fact happened. Look at the Assault Weapons Ban. When it passed few ever thought lawmakers would let it sunset. The Democrats never thought they would lose control of both Houses. They in fact did, over the ban I might add. A lot of shooters bet big money it wouldn't and lost. I knew guys that paid $115.00 each for Hi-Cap Glock mags during the ban. You can get them for $13.00 each now. I'm not saying the full auto ban will be reversed, but you never know what the future will bring. There are guys that have hundreds of thousands tied up in these things that would take a real bath if they ever did become available in any great quantity again. Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no. Bill T.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Toad said:
As a military retire, I always loved a mad minute - thats full auto untill the gun is empty. In combat
we taught 3Rd bursts, but most of the time it came out 4 or 5 RND's, as said above rifle fire with 7,62 is mostly a waste. But give me a 9mm or 5.56 and we could snap shot 2 or 3Rnd's up to 100 Yd's and get them every time with quick kill training, I'm sorry they still don't train it. For a shear wall of bad ass, Felushette Rnd's from a 12 Ga. auto is it. - sorry im getting carried away, I agree with the class 3 builder, move to a gun frendly state & invest in what ever you can afford!!!!!!!!!! :--- :-B-:
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Special Forces still train 3 rounders with the M-4. My son just returned from Iraq and used the M-4 3 rounder. He only used it in the burst position when he was the tactical trunk monkey, shooting out of the little door cut in the back of an armor plated Suburban.
:---
 

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I have shot several full autos in law enforcement, however trying to hold down on a target with a USAS-12 was a handful

 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Is full auto practical? No. But the smile-grin factor is what it's about! Hold your finger on that trigger a while and if you're not smiling there's something wrong with you IMO!
 

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Neanderthal said:
Is full auto practical? No. But the smile-grin factor is what it's about! Hold your finger on that trigger a while and if you're not smiling there's something wrong with you IMO!
so true :-B-: :D :D :D :D :D :---
just fireing a gun makes me feel good but full auto make me feel like I just got a free house and truck with a 200acre plot of land with a dog, then the goverment said i didnt have to pay taxes on any of it :D :D
:-B-: :--- I LOVE GUNS!
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
whompuss said:
I have shot a full automatic rifle and think it's a waste of good ammo. After the first few rounds, unless you're shooting a mounted weapon, you just spray lead in the general direction of the target.
I don't have a problem with someone owning one, if that turns them on. They aren't inherently dangerous. The danger of any gun is zero, it's the person on the operating end that can be dangerous.

Have to admit though that I run the Ponderosa Gun site every few days to see and hear the sound of that 50 BMG mounted on the flat bed truck. That rocks! :D

I agree with you 100%, unless Military or Police issued. A Full Auto Rifle, Machine Pistol or even a Silencer really has only 1 purpose. And it's not to Carry Concealed! Sure, they might be fun to play with for a Day if you were never in the Service, where you were trained with them and now don't care. But to go out and buy an Assault Weapon, I see no need for Joe Average that gets a Pistol for Protection to go and Buy an AK47! You cannot Hunt with it, You cannot even take it to a Range! In your Home you are better off with a Pistol that is easier to move quickly with. Even when in the Service they kept the Auto-Fireing down, as it gets expensive! So what is left?
To Kill a Person, Period! There is no other practical use, Unless I forgot something? Silencers are even more Dangerous! The only answers I ever got at "Another Non-Competitive Site" was 1- to get a Silencer so you need not wear a Headset!! 2- So you don't bother the Neighbors!! 1st- I wear a simple pair of Shooting Glasses, and 2nd- If bothering the Neighbors, Why the Hell are you Shooting anything so near?? **Really Weak Answers, and Sorry, I just don't buy it!!
 
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