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Aim true !
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Very interesting article. Long read but has a lot of history in it. Gunwriters' Handloading Subsonic Cartridges, Part 1
Here is a beginning copy from the article.

''Author has played with subsonic centerfire rifle handloads since 1974 -- yes, quarter of a century -- being still alive. Frustration of many cartridge manufacturers, powder producers, bulletmongers and many other authorities on handloading has been easy to understand: Many peoples have a loathing for idea that all the folks can handload subsonic ammo! Many others are without prejudice: They need just know-how...

Reduced charges for Rimmed Russian rifle cartridges 7.62 mm Mosin-Nagant the author used a quarter-century ago in his old battered Winchester Model 1895 "Angliiskiy Zakaz" rifle, made for Imperial Russia during First World War and captured by patriotic Finnish Civil Guard during the First Finnish Independence War in 1918.

Author could obtain just old "war souvenir" cartridges, because he hadn't permission to possess that Winchester, and so it was impossible to get license for buying of 7.62 x 53 R cartridges either. Along with one lot of cartridges he got several hundreds rounds of Russian 7.62 x 25 mm submachine gun ammo into the bargain.Many rifle cartridges with 9.6 grams Spitzer bullets contained spoiled powder charge, but the primers were functional.

7.62 mm Tokarev ammo were in very good condition, but author had no firearms for shooting with 7.62 x 25 mm cartridges. He had a lot of rifle brass with good primers along with salvaged bullets, but not rifle powder, and handloading data, or even the reloading equipment, except bullet-removing pliers. He had pistol powder in Tokarev cartridges, charges 0.54 or 0.55 grams behind bullets, weighing 5.5 grams.''
 

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been thinking some about your key-hole problem...........

as i myself have never loaded a rifle caliber sub sonic.....i do remember some years back a man that did. His practice was before each shot, he would tilt the barrel up to let the reduced powder charge in the case settle near the primer.....then take the shot. he stated it gave him more uniform ignition and better consistency. I have no idea if this may be a factor with your red dot rifle loads....but it got me wondering since you stated some rounds key-holed and some did not.

..but i did a little digging on the subject and came up with this article about "powder migration" with reduced loads and the effects on pistol and rifle calibers..... Powder Position and Pressure « Western Powders
 
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Yes tilting the barrel up does make things better and i usually do that when chambering a new round anyway regardless of the load on bolt or lever guns. Some guys also use filler like cream of wheat or cornmeal but i have never tried that.
 
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AZHerper
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Yes tilting the barrel up does make things better and i usually do that when chambering a new round anyway regardless of the load on bolt or lever guns. Some guys also use filler like cream of wheat or cornmeal but i have never tried that.
If you look at what I said to Coal about raising and lowering the barrel when he was getting keyholing from low density charges now I see that you experienced it yourself.
 

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Great idea thanks a bunch. Come to think of it. When i put my mags in my 06's. I do have the gun pointing up.

I cleared my inbox too as a side note.
 

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If you look at what I said to Coal about raising and lowering the barrel when he was getting keyholing from low density charges now I see that you experienced it yourself.

Like i said earlier the only problems i have experienced with keyholing is using bullets designed for a gas check where i didn't use one. Even on those they were bullets on the heavy side like 200gr .309 or 500gr 45-70. The 45-70's were the worst and they were not using reduced loads like we're talking about. For those i generally use 4198. Tipping the gun up(especially on a lever gun) is natural motion for me when i'm re chambering a round. I don't point it at the sky, just lift it a little. All of these loads I'm talking about are published loads in the Lyman cast bullet book and in there they do talk about some of the dangers but mention it's mostly in the larger cases like 45-70 and up. I used them in rounds like 30-30, 30-40, 30-06, 7.7. pretty much all are .30 cal bottle neck cases and 8mm mauser as well.
Also the shotgun powder comment wasn't a dig at you, was just pointing it out because i didn't know if you knew that or not.
 

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I read the western powders article. Good article thanks Deputy.
 
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