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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes you read it right. I think open carry should be outlawed.

Here's my reasoning:

1. Modern long-gun firepower means we have to put far too much trust into a single individual’s sanity & competency with open carry. That’s more than we should ask of the citizenry.

It's kinda like trusting just any ol' pilot to fly your plane. With open-carry, you have no choice but to be on that plane, and you won't know if he's going to fly it into a building in micro-seconds. You don't know the guy from Adam, and yet he has a right to walk around your kids with a tool that could wipe them all out in an instant, and there's nothing you can do about it. (Unless maybe you're concealed carrying, but that's another story.)

Yes, a semi truck could do the same, but semi-trucks bring your food to the table. What does open carry bring to the table? Not a whole lot.

2. Someone is ALWAYS going to get upset & call the cops — and rightfully so. Why waste the cop’s time & put him in that danger? A guy walking around with an AR should indeed be a red flag & a cause for alarm -- and a rational person should indeed call the cops. Why go through all that drama? There's a reason "well regulated" is in the 2A -- ARs speak to that reason.

3. No right is absolute. 1st amendment exists too — but should strangers have the right to carry their ARs to the playground & chat up your kids without interference? Of course not. You'd call the cops -- as you should.

4. There’s NO WAY open-carry can ever be allowed fairly. Obviously some groups are going to be allowed more than others. White more than black. "Patriots" more than some dude dressed like a jihadi or in a "grim reaper" halloween outfit. Realistically, it's not permitted for everyone. Since it brings nothing to the table, it should simply be disallowed across the board.

5. It doesn’t enhance the right to self defense one bit, not even self-defense from a tyrannical government. That is, if push came to shove, you're not going to care if open carry is against the law or not. And if we're not there, paradoxically, you don't need open carry. Again, it brings nothing good to the table. So it shouldn’t be protected — especially given the reasons above.

6. It just encourages stupidity, like we're seeing in 2020 -- with posers posing with their guns at protests and such. Let's say it together: People. Are. Stupid. It's a recipe for disaster to have opposing factions marching around in these penis-measuring contests. True warriors have their guns and get good with them in private, not showing everyone what they have (and thereby getting their guns that much closer to being outlawed based on the scary poser cos-play).

The cos-play is also antithetical to "ensuring domestic tranquility" and "promoting the general welfare". Plus there's that "well regulated" part, so please don't reach for the absolutism.

...So there you have it, conveniently numbered above. Can you talk me down (with civility of course)? :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Right after I posted this, I stumbled across the "Help me understand - Open Carry. Why do it?" thread. :LOL:

I see it got locked, so it must've got heated. I'll go read that one. Mods, if you want, you can delete this thread if you think it's too controversial (but I hope you won't, because I want to see what people think of the points above).
 

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You should turn in all your guns now.

I seriously doubt you are but if you are a member of the NRA or GOA cancel your membership.

You're a frog sitting in a pot of water and reach out of the pot to turn on the stove.
 

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When we held Virginia Lobby Day back in January, we had over 20,000 people packed into downtown Richmond open carrying ARs and AKs. It was glorious. There were no problems with the protesters or the cops. There were people of all races and ideals, even Antifa. It was 100% fair. I don't see the issue. As the president of the VCDL has said, the only difference in open carry and concealed carry is the option whether or not to wear a jacket. Other than that, there is no difference. You can carry a carbine under a coat.

Your argument is playing right into the anti-gunners claims that honest citizens cannot be trusted with AR firepower. That is a clear violation of 2A. The highest calling of the RTKABA is to fight tyranny and for that you need long guns and open carry. The Minutemen fighting the British open carried for sure. We need to have the right to be armed as militia and that is not compatible with concealed carry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
When we held Virginia Lobby Day back in January, we had over 20,000 people packed into downtown Richmond open carrying ARs and AKs. It was glorious. There were no problems with the protesters or the cops. There were people of all races and ideals, even Antifa.
Glad to hear it. It's all good -- until it's not. The school shooter Adam Lanza was "open carrying" too, right until he started shooting kids. See my point #1.

Your argument is playing right into the anti-gunners claims that honest citizens cannot be trusted with AR firepower.
I never said we shouldn't be allowed to have the guns -- just that we shouldn't be allowed to march them into walmart or bring them to political protests, because of the ruckus and the potential for violence that comes with it. Citizens can definitely be trusted with the firepower -- but not all citizens, and by the time you know the difference it's too late.

the only difference in open carry and concealed carry is the option whether or not to wear a jacket.
That sounds good, but ARs can't be concealed with a jacket. Plus, open carry does signal a certain intent. That is, you have to have it in the open before you shoot it. Plus there's points #2, 4 & 5.

Thanks for your answer, though. I'm not above changing my mind, and I'm actually looking to have my points challenged. I've seen a lot of open carry at protests lately and it got me to thinking -- why is this allowed? What's good about it? I came to the conclusion that it should in fact be outlawed for the reasons above -- just as lots of other things that have a gigantic potential for harm and public alarm are banned (e.g. speeding or selling heroin or public nudity).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
You should turn in all your guns now.
Why? lol :)

Open carry is a vastly different issue than gun ownership. You might say outlawing open carry is a "slippery slope" to sweeping gun bans, but I don't think it is at all.

I think bringing long guns to political protests or McDonalds is more of a slippery slope to gun bans.

People who fear guns want to ban them. Waving them around makes people fear them, especially if they end up in a shoot out at some protest somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thou shall not be infringed ...... no ifs, ands, or buts.
"Well regulated"

"ensure domestic tranquility"

"provide for the common defense"

"promote the general welfare"...


The framers' intent counts, my friend. The preamble is the most important part, imho. Even the first amendment has limitations that come with living in a complex civil society. Why shouldn't the second?

...Especially when it comes to something that doesn't bring much to the table, like open carry.
 

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Yes you read it right. I think open carry should be outlawed.
You're entitled to your opinion.

While I'm no advocate of open carry (for NONE of the reasons you've stated) I think we should be very careful asking for any laws curtailing the second amendment.
It is also my opinion that open carry and constitutional carry should be 50 states legal.
 

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i am not a big fan of open carry so i rarely do it with a handgun and never with a long gun.....

when i see someone open carry a long gun.....they go on my radar as a potential threat at the most.....a magnet for incoming fire and attention at the least.....right or wrong...i am of an older generation. The younger generations are taking the helm. if you would had told me some decades back that the ar15 would become the most popular rifle platform in America, i would had laughed......i am not laughing now...

but a distrust/dislike of lawful long gun open carry is my problem....not the carrier's problem nor the law's problem.....it sort of comes back to that old saying....."i may disagree with what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it"....and open carry has become as much a part of free speech and making a statement as it is a part of self defense and the 2a......

.....so i will never support the abolishment of open carry.......just more encouragement for common sense usage (not laws) to avoid idiot episodes like the mall ninja feller in walmart in missouri and the panic/evac it caused following on the heels of the El Paso walmart mass shooting...his methods of free speech was like yelling fire in a crowded movie theatre.

so many long guns have been showing up at protests with open carry by both sides here recently......but with very rare exceptions.....hardly any trouble.....which goes back to an "armed society is a polite society"....that simple statement in itself could be construed at face value that open carry does work...they ain't killing each other despite opposing views and being well armed.

the mass media is very disappointed that there is not blood in the streets because they forgot that simple saying....or refuse to acknowledge it.
 

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The framers' intent counts, my friend. The preamble is the most important part, imho. Even the first amendment has limitations that come with living in a complex civil society. Why shouldn't the second?
So it's okay to place limits on citizenship? I'm okay with that. Revoke the citizenship of liberals and deport them to some third world craphole. :giggle:
 

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I disagree with forcing concealed carry over open carry. What other Right afforded in the constitution is a person required to hide? I live in Illinois where the crime rate is staggering, yet for the past several decades the politicians have either barred our right to carry or forced it to be hidden. Compare Illinois crime rate with any state that allows open carry. Compare NY and CA which have the other 2 most restrictive laws that violate the 2nd amendment.

We only hide them because it’s scary to weak people. I personally don’t give a rats behind what scares people, it is again, a right afforded in the constitution. How would you like me to tell you that you had the right to free speech as long as no one knows about it? Your right to post to this forum would not exist. The right identifies the right to bear arms, not just have them at home for safe keeping. I cannot stand people who pretend to know what the framers has in mind... which happened to be a time when open carry was common.

If it was not intended, why did it take 143 years to pass the first major gun control at the federal level? Long after the framers were dead and gone.
 

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Glad to hear it. It's all good -- until it's not. The school shooter Adam Lanza was "open carrying" too, right until he started shooting kids. See my point #1. Comparing Lanza with 20,000 patriots is insulting. Also, what kind of anti-OC law would have stopped Lanza? He was already in violation of a bunch of laws. That is not an OC issue.

I never said we shouldn't be allowed to have the guns -- just that we shouldn't be allowed to march them into walmart or bring them to political protests, because of the ruckus and the potential for violence that comes with it. Citizens can definitely be trusted with the firepower -- but not all citizens, and by the time you know the difference it's too late. Well if we should be allowed to have the guns, what are we supposed to do with them? Hide them away for a rainy day? 2A says "...to keep and bear arms..." and the framers meant OC when they wrote that. Also, your point is again not an OC issue. If I want to shoot up a Walmart, I don't care about any OC laws. And OC'ing at peaceful, pro-gun political event has a huge impact. I have been involved in several and it makes a difference. You eliminate that and you lessen the 1A impact. I have seen that first hand.

That sounds good, but ARs can't be concealed with a jacket. Plus, open carry does signal a certain intent. That is, you have to have it in the open before you shoot it. Plus there's points #2, 4 & 5. There are multiple articles and videos online about how to conceal an AR pistol, so you are wrong about that. And for a mass shooting situation, an AR pistol is as effective as a full-size. I also disagree OC signals an intent that CC does not. Brandishing signals intent, not carry. Again, we are just talking about a piece of cloth making the difference. It is saying "Oh, you can't see my gun, so it's not there."

Thanks for your answer, though. I'm not above changing my mind, and I'm actually looking to have my points challenged. I've seen a lot of open carry at protests lately and it got me to thinking -- why is this allowed? What's good about it? I came to the conclusion that it should in fact be outlawed for the reasons above -- just as lots of other things that have a gigantic potential for harm and public alarm are banned (e.g. speeding or selling heroin or public nudity). I think comparing carry by law abiding gun owners to "speeding or selling heroin or public nudity" is apples and oranges, insulting and unfair. The other big problem I see is "creeping restrictions." You take away OC, then what? The gun control problem solved? I don't think so. The anti-gun crowd will celebrate that as a win and then use some of the same logic to go after CC. The gun control side never met a restriction it didn't like. Our side needs to close ranks and never have a restriction we do like. Appeasement does not work.
Answers in bold.
 

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Every single thing the OP discussed and the reasons given have been debunked over and over.

OP- Your obvious fear of the sight of an object is irrelevant.
Vehicles kill more people every year than guns do. Do you run crying in fear when you see the family car?

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"Well regulated"

"ensure domestic tranquility"

"provide for the common defense"

"promote the general welfare"...


The framers' intent counts, my friend. The preamble is the most important part, imho. Even the first amendment has limitations that come with living in a complex civil society. Why shouldn't the second?

...Especially when it comes to something that doesn't bring much to the table, like open carry.
It is not the most important part. It simply states why the Constitution is important. Just why we have rights and where they come from.
Perhaps you should go back and read it again.

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Last Stand on Earth
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Every single thing the OP discussed and the reasons given have been debunked over and over.

OP- Your obvious fear of the sight of an object is irrelevant.
Vehicles kill more people every year than guns do. Do you run crying in fear when you see the family car?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Free speech is far more dangerous. Hitler used words to gain power (promises of socialism utopia). Jim Jones used his words to kill hundreds of people (ironically with the proverbial liberal kool-aid). Words incited the riots across the US (by instilling fear to create violence). People are sheep, words are more dangerous than all the guns will ever be. Guns are a means to an end, an end created by someone’s words.
 

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The only distinction between open carry and concealed carry that I am aware (and as mentioned) is that where open carry is currently not allowed or not popular the general public (people) will over react and many will get out their cell phone video device and 911speed dial. As word spreads and people become educated this should end. That said, I see no reason to carry a rifle into walmart, unless your vehicle does not have a lockable hiding place like a trunk.
 

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Live Free
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Yes you read it right. I think open carry should be outlawed.

Here's my reasoning:

1. Modern long-gun firepower means we have to put far too much trust into a single individual’s sanity & competency with open carry. That’s more than we should ask of the citizenry.

It's kinda like trusting just any ol' pilot to fly your plane. With open-carry, you have no choice but to be on that plane, and you won't know if he's going to fly it into a building in micro-seconds. You don't know the guy from Adam, and yet he has a right to walk around your kids with a tool that could wipe them all out in an instant, and there's nothing you can do about it. (Unless maybe you're concealed carrying, but that's another story.)

Yes, a semi truck could do the same, but semi-trucks bring your food to the table. What does open carry bring to the table? Not a whole lot.

2. Someone is ALWAYS going to get upset & call the cops — and rightfully so. Why waste the cop’s time & put him in that danger? A guy walking around with an AR should indeed be a red flag & a cause for alarm -- and a rational person should indeed call the cops. Why go through all that drama? There's a reason "well regulated" is in the 2A -- ARs speak to that reason.

3. No right is absolute. 1st amendment exists too — but should strangers have the right to carry their ARs to the playground & chat up your kids without interference? Of course not. You'd call the cops -- as you should.

4. There’s NO WAY open-carry can ever be allowed fairly. Obviously some groups are going to be allowed more than others. White more than black. "Patriots" more than some dude dressed like a jihadi or in a "grim reaper" halloween outfit. Realistically, it's not permitted for everyone. Since it brings nothing to the table, it should simply be disallowed across the board.

5. It doesn’t enhance the right to self defense one bit, not even self-defense from a tyrannical government. That is, if push came to shove, you're not going to care if open carry is against the law or not. And if we're not there, paradoxically, you don't need open carry. Again, it brings nothing good to the table. So it shouldn’t be protected — especially given the reasons above.

6. It just encourages stupidity, like we're seeing in 2020 -- with posers posing with their guns at protests and such. Let's say it together: People. Are. Stupid. It's a recipe for disaster to have opposing factions marching around in these penis-measuring contests. True warriors have their guns and get good with them in private, not showing everyone what they have (and thereby getting their guns that much closer to being outlawed based on the scary poser cos-play).

The cos-play is also antithetical to "ensuring domestic tranquility" and "promoting the general welfare". Plus there's that "well regulated" part, so please don't reach for the absolutism.

...So there you have it, conveniently numbered above. Can you talk me down (with civility of course)? :unsure:
Okay...Let me be right up front and say I disagree with you, completely. And, BTW, I do not open carry within communities.

You say it is more than should be asked of citizens. Really? As Americans we have much; more freedom than any other nation on earth, and with freedom much is asked of the citizens of this great country to respect and honor all our freedoms, which are God given.

I notice you seem focused on folks approaching children (your children?) while openly carrying a rifle. An adult approaching other folks children concerns me, but the fact that one is carrying a weapon openly, just makes them easy to spot. How many folks are out there with concealed weapons? You don’t know their intentions or who they are even, but as long as they do not open carry, are they thus okay around your children? If we are getting alarmed every time we see a person with a gun, then it won’t be long before we will push past open carry and try to eliminate firearms altogether for citizens. Why? Because you/we are afraid of a person who legally possesses a gun!
I have more thoughts on all this, but much to do now, so, enough said.
 

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So open carry is more dangerous than conceal carry.
Does the weapon become magically more lethal when out in the open air?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on the matter. Just be careful what you wish for.
You gun rights are not going to be taken away all at once but in increments. So outlawing OC is just a step towards total gun control.
 
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