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I don't begrudge anyone that decides the vaccine is right for them. But the truth is, they are proven to NOT work. At least not as advertised. And possibly the long term effects could be just as bad as Covid. That is still unknown.
My oldest boy's FIL has pancreatic cancer. So far under control. He is vaccinated. Given all the evidence, he decided the short term benefit outweighed the possible long term effects. I don't blame him one bit. We have been friends since the kids were kids and I hope he is around a while longer.
My wife took them for work and to travel to see her grand daughter. I don't blame her either.
I refuse to take a vaccine that is proven to not work. Damn the long term consequences.
It's kind of like taking Tic-Tacs to cure your cancer. Possible, but not very probable.

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Last Stand on Earth
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2- All the newer strains of Covid are affecting the vaccinated worse than the non vaccinated public.
2. That would be astonishing! I wonder why the J&J vaccines would do that, but similar vaccines don't do that with pneumonia, shingles, chickenpox, polio, or measles? Show me the raw non-analyzed data. I'll statistically analyze it myself, and will let you know.
Statistically, those who are most likely to get vaccinated are more susceptible to the effects of the virus. Since the vaccines are for strains other than the new ones, it acts exactly like those for the Flu. Flu vaccines are updated every year to include the most prevalent strains.

2. The vaccines don't work. They don't stop this illness. It is alleged that it makes the illness less severe
Vaccines are designed to trigger a faster immune response, not keep you from getting infected.
 

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AZHerper
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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Statistically, those who are most likely to get vaccinated are more susceptible to the effects of the virus. Since the vaccines are for strains other than the new ones, it acts exactly like those for the Flu. Flu vaccines are updated every year to include the most prevalent strains.



Vaccines are designed to trigger a faster immune response, not keep you from getting infected.
Lux et veritas.
 

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There's only three choices. 1) Take a shot of non-functioning COVID pieces (e.g. J&J) to train your immune system. 2) Take a shot of mRNA that teaches your cells to make a non-functioning COVID piece (e.g. Pfizer) to train your immune system. 3) Get infected with the actual working live COVID virus.

I think COVID is deadly because I see hospitals that are still flooded with cases -- this never happened with "the flu". I personally know people who have become permanently disabled due to COVID. I know friends-of-friends who have died of COVID. I've lost contact with a friend who lives out of town. He isn't returning my texts or calls. Last I heard he has COVID. I'm worried.

On the other hand, in my whole life, I've never heard of anyone being hospitalized, or calling out permanently disabled or dead from work, because of "the flu". Never. Not one time in decades. This all started recently, with COVID. Back in the day, we saw going to work with "the flu" as being a manly choice. COVID is not "the flu" and it is causing death and severe life changing consequences to many people in my life. There's also the data.

So I got 3 shots. Each time I felt tired and my muscles were sore as my immune system learned to fight the dead virus pieces. I watched TV and lazed on the couch for a day. Easy breezy lemon squeezy. I'm also taking vitamins.

Your beliefs and your results may vary.

After far as not worrying about it? I'm not. God will decide what ultimately happens to me. But I am extremely happy with my results, so far. Went on a cruise a few weeks ago. Had a BLAST. They are almost giving away tickets. Didn't worry about COVID, not even for a moment. Drank and ate way too much. Been going to concerts, too.

Yes, I am biased. I have an advanced degree and background in Logic Scientific Fields and Natural Scientific Fields. So, that's where my opinions come from. I'm so far beyond an arm chair YouTube scientist, that it's indescribable. I'm the real thing. I thank Edward Jenner? for discovering vaccines and thank the pharma companies that have learned how to make them far safer than they were back in Edward's day. As far as the worries such as "tracking me with chips", for example, I'm not going there because it would be a waste of time. Let's just keep it layman simple: I'm pretty sure it's way cheaper and more effective to track me using my cell phone, tax return, credit card, CCP, drivers license, internet browser, computer operating system, security cameras, and so on.

Having said all of that, I DO actually respect your opinion if you decided not to get the vaccine. There's no such thing as the last line in a lab book. There are always exceptions, new information, and broken paradigms. Besides, if I'm right, the world could use a little depopulation. So, I'm not going to shout or get aggravated. We are all rolling the dice, every time we roll out of bed, one way or another.

Good luck to us all. We're going to need it.

* I didn't profreed this. Too much work just writing it. I'm sure I said something(s) dumb or wrong. Please take it all with a grain of salt and do your own research.
Back in the day, I always thought it was stupid, not "manly" to go to work with the flu, colds, etc. I've sent many sick people home from work that thought being at work transmitting disease was better than staying home, recovering, and not transmitting what they had to the rest of a workforce.

All viruses mutate, almost by definition.

The nature of critical thinking is to disagree at times so that should be considered normal, not an invitation to fight as happens all too often. You seem to understand that.
 

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I don't care for the discussions about conspiracy crap either. We agree on that point.

But two things come to mind:

1. The CDC, FDA, HHS, etc. keep changing their damn minds. And have done so all along. Of course, I also believe in science and as we learn more about how it works, we can better defend against it. So, if they change their minds because of new discoveries, I'm okay with it. If, however, they change their minds because of unscientific reasons, I'm not interested. Yes, it's been happening all along, as you already know.

2. The vaccines don't work. They don't stop this illness. It is alleged that it makes the illness less severe but I'm not seeing that other than in the "journalistic" write ups that you are opposed to (I'm opposed to them as well). Go look at the data. The Johns Hopkins University site has been collecting the data from the very beginning and you can see the data for every state. Vaccinations go up. Infections go up. With the advent of Omicron, infections are skyrocketing all over the world.

Human beings cannot stop a virus. We develop and administer vaccinations and hope for the best. We haven't stopped the common cold. Never even come close. BTW, the common cold is ALSO a type of coronavirus. Go figure.

With all of that said, I don't begrudge anyone getting the vaccine either. We're all going to get Covid at some point, though. Count on that.

--Wag--
1. Yes! LOL! What an absolute mess!

2. I'm also watching John Hopkins data. If you'll notice COVID deaths data started as exponential. After the start of vaccines the data showed a logistic point, which was awesome and I started to get hopeful. Then we got the mutations. Bad. The COVID deaths data now looks like it has settled down to linear? Better than bad, but, yep, not good enough. The improvement could be due to a lot of things, like medical care, personal risk taking, and not just vaccines. It might? be showing a bit of a exponential characteristic again?? But again, could be due to lots of factors. Regardless, I don't see anything in that data that suggests that the vaccine doesn't work.

I know what you're think'in. Stop at the Walmart pharmacy to practice with 'dead' 0% functioning COVID pieces. Or, wait to wake up one morning with a 'live' whole 100% functioning COVID. Well to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being that this is a COVID virus, the most powerful flu in the world, and could blow your lungs clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, "Do I feel lucky?" Haha! Sorry for that! No disrespect! As this is a gun forum, I couldn't resist!

Be well! Best wishes!
 

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Back in the day, I always thought it was stupid, not "manly" to go to work with the flu, colds, etc. I've sent many sick people home from work that thought being at work transmitting disease was better than staying home, recovering, and not transmitting what they had to the rest of a workforce.

All viruses mutate, almost by definition.

The nature of critical thinking is to disagree at times so that should be considered normal, not an invitation to fight as happens all too often. You seem to understand that.
Thank you my friend. As we did back in the 70's and 80's. We would argue, sometimes very loudly, and then buy the next round. So much less hate. I miss it.
 

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this is a COVID virus, the most powerful flu in the world, and could blow your lungs clean off
ALL common colds and flu variations are caused by a covid virus,

Most powerful flu?
Maybe. Maybe not.
As many have believed since the beginning, we are now learning that the 'official' numbers have been doubled, tripled, quadrupled, quintupled and possibly more. (Example: An 80 year old man diagnosed with congestive heart failure has a heart attack and dies. Since he also tested positive for covid-19, his death is listed as a covid death.)

"... Could blow your lungs clean off".
Overstated, at best.
I realize this is anecdotal.
I have survived two bouts with covid-19. Late Spring 2020 and early Autumn 2021. I'm still alive. I still have both lungs. I suffer no long term effects. Admittedly, I was sick as a dog for two weeks and three weeks respectively. Oh yeah, I was 75 at the times and am a long term smoker.
That being said, a close friend got covid-19 Delta and was dead in four days.

Covid-19 (The first three variants.) is a serious and deadly virus. I have serious problems with the government and media induced panic concerning this virus. Its pure propaganda based on lies and half truths. I refuse to drink the Kool-Ade.
 

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I think COVID is deadly because I see hospitals that are still flooded with cases -- this never happened with "the flu".
44 years in medical field and I am here to tell you that is an inaccurate statement. Just do a search and you will see how wrong that statement is.

There is so much wrong with what is being reported. This is the flu season. In years past people flooded the hospital (ER) and were admitted left and right. Bed shortages are nothing new this time of year. Hospital bypass, beds in the hall, ER beds waiting days to be admitted to floor and so much more.

I am glad you got the vaccine. I am ok with anyone getting it or not getting it.

I despise the mask and other mandates. I truly do not beleive this is a pandemic to the degree the government wants you to believe.
 

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My red blood cell counts are down. Im usually high and have to donate a pint. I looked up if covid can cause low counts. It sure can. I was telling my Doc about my son having it. She asked if i went for a test. i told her no i felt fine. She said i should have got tested anyway. I wonder now with my blood work results she will have me get tested.
 

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Last Stand on Earth
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44 years in medical field and I am here to tell you that is an inaccurate statement. Just do a search and you will see how wrong that statement is.

There is so much wrong with what is being reported. This is the flu season. In years past people flooded the hospital (ER) and were admitted left and right. Bed shortages are nothing new this time of year. Hospital bypass, beds in the hall, ER beds waiting days to be admitted to floor and so much more.

I am glad you got the vaccine. I am ok with anyone getting it or not getting it.

I despise the mask and other mandates. I truly do not beleive this is a pandemic to the degree the government wants you to believe.
The pneumonia shot will not protect you from the pneumonia brought on from covid.
How dare you with all your facts n’ stuff…😂
 

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44 years in medical field and I am here to tell you that is an inaccurate statement. Just do a search and you will see how wrong that statement is.

There is so much wrong with what is being reported. This is the flu season. In years past people flooded the hospital (ER) and were admitted left and right. Bed shortages are nothing new this time of year. Hospital bypass, beds in the hall, ER beds waiting days to be admitted to floor and so much more.

I am glad you got the vaccine. I am ok with anyone getting it or not getting it.

I despise the mask and other mandates. I truly do not beleive this is a pandemic to the degree the government wants you to believe.
Let me tell you a little story.

Once upon a time, a geologist runs an experiment to determine if meteors cause craters on the Earth. He travels to the side of the Barringer Crater in Arizona, sets up instruments, and carefully observes the area for 3 months. Each day he opens his lab book and dutifully records the number of meteors that he personally saw hit the Earth and cause a crater. At the end of 3 months, he carefully adds up all of the meteor strikes that he saw that caused any craters. "No meteors were observed to cause any craters.", he writes. His conclusion, "Meteors do not cause craters on the Earth."

Here is some COVID death data in the USA that you might not have personally experienced, but which others have.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Here is some past flu death data in the USA that you might not have personally experienced, but which other have. (thank you Square Target)

United States influenza statistics by flu season - Wikipedia

The COVID data does not include total hospitalizations. But both COVID data and influenza data do both include deaths. So we can compare deaths from the influenza vs deaths from COVID.

You'll see that between April 9, 2020 to April 9, 2021 there were about 562,991 deaths from COVID.

During past years, there were about (roughly eyeballing it) 30,000 a year from influenza.

If I subtract out influenza, just to make it super fair, then that's 532,991 COVID deaths in a year VS 30,000 influenza deaths in a year. That's 1,677% MORE deaths from COVID than influenza.

I don't know where you live, but be glad you live there. You say you were overwhelmed during past years with influenza? Stay where you are at! Other folks have to deal with influenza (like you're struggling with) but ALSO have to deal with 1,677% more deaths due to COVID.

And before anyone says, "Oh but COVID deaths are actually automobile accidents being recorded as COVID deaths!" Okay, then how about the automobile death data? Did automobile death data suddenly go to zero, this year? I'm not going to look it up. But ya'll can.

Once again: My disclaimer. I'm just toying around. Not taking this seriously. Very little proofreading. It probably doesn't come across in the writing, but this is not me blustering or pounding on the table. I'm kinda chuckling and having some fun. So PLEASE take everything I write with a grain of salt, and I don't mean to sound like I'm disrespecting anyone. I look forward to seeing other opinions!

Be well!
 

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Arguments about opinions are completely pointless. Also, you can't make good decisions without good facts.

One thing I've noticed in about 35 years of on line debate, conversation and argument is that most people argue about opinion. Granted, people have reasons for their opinions which they derive from their own experience, belief and training but in the end analysis, they are opinion and, rather pointless.

My suspicions about Covid is that the facts we need are not being given to us and the facts we actually do receive are distorted and changed on a too-frequent, too-regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of learning new things and increasing knowledge based on scientific research and thereby changing our direction as a result.

Nevertheless, when it comes to Covid many of the things which keep changing are not based on science at all. In fact, one of the key data sets we need to make an informed and correct decision about the vaccines is being covered up for the next 55 years. It's also suspicious that the companies making the vaccines are granted immunity from lawsuits, suspicious that the vaccines are being pressed to us with 'hard sell' tactics, suspicious that we see a lot of decisions being made based on political power moves rather than an interest in the well-being of people in general.

As mentioned by others, the whole thing is a massive experiment. Or at least, it has the earmarks of a massive experiment.

--Wag--
 
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Arguments about opinions are completely pointless. Also, you can't make good decisions without good facts.

One thing I've noticed in about 35 years of on line debate, conversation and argument is that most people argue about opinion. Granted, people have reasons for their opinions which they derive from their own experience, belief and training but in the end analysis, they are opinion and, rather pointless.

My suspicions about Covid is that the facts we need are not being given to us and the facts we actually do receive are distorted and changed on a too-frequent, too-regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of learning new things and increasing knowledge based on scientific research and thereby changing our direction as a result.

Nevertheless, when it comes to Covid many of the things which keep changing are not based on science at all. In fact, one of the key data sets we need to make an informed and correct decision about the vaccines is being covered up for the next 55 years. It's also suspicious that the companies making the vaccines are granted immunity from lawsuits, suspicious that the vaccines are being pressed to us with 'hard sell' tactics, suspicious that we see a lot of decisions being made based on political power moves rather than an interest in the well-being of people in general.

As mentioned by others, the whole thing is a massive experiment. Or at least, it has the earmarks of a massive experiment.

--Wag--
Agreed. Now ... opinion ... I feel it IS a big experiment. I think it was right when we closed the borders to China, wish they were never reopened. I think COVID is a military virus, and experiment. China has been stabbing the USA in the back every chance it's had since Korea. I don't trust them or anything they say, not even a little bit. From the USA side, if I was dictator of the USA for 5 minutes, I'd use 1 minute of that time to shut down all trade with all brutal dictatorships that ignore basic human rights. I feel like the J&J vaccine is probably the closest to a traditional vaccine that's out there. I'm grateful to J&J for making it. I don't feel (not yet) that Pfizer or Moderna have any ill-will, their vaccines are probably okay (now that billions have gotten it), and feel that are really trying to do their best (but your point about experiments is very well taken, you could be right, and I reserve the right to change my very weakly positive opinion on Pfizer and Moderna at any time).
 

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Let me tell you a little story.

Once upon a time, a geologist runs an experiment to determine if meteors cause craters on the Earth. He travels to the side of the Barringer Crater in Arizona, sets up instruments, and carefully observes the area for 3 months. Each day he opens his lab book and dutifully records the number of meteors that he personally saw hit the Earth and cause a crater. At the end of 3 months, he carefully adds up all of the meteor strikes that he saw that caused any craters. "No meteors were observed to cause any craters.", he writes. His conclusion, "Meteors do not cause craters on the Earth."

Here is some COVID death data in the USA that you might not have personally experienced, but which others have.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Here is some past flu death data in the USA that you might not have personally experienced, but which other have. (thank you Square Target)

United States influenza statistics by flu season - Wikipedia

The COVID data does not include total hospitalizations. But both COVID data and influenza data do both include deaths. So we can compare deaths from the influenza vs deaths from COVID.

You'll see that between April 9, 2020 to April 9, 2021 there were about 562,991 deaths from COVID.

During past years, there were about (roughly eyeballing it) 30,000 a year from influenza.

If I subtract out influenza, just to make it super fair, then that's 532,991 COVID deaths in a year VS 30,000 influenza deaths in a year. That's 1,677% MORE deaths from COVID than influenza.

I don't know where you live, but be glad you live there. You say you were overwhelmed during past years with influenza? Stay where you are at! Other folks have to deal with influenza (like you're struggling with) but ALSO have to deal with 1,677% more deaths due to COVID.

And before anyone says, "Oh but COVID deaths are actually automobile accidents being recorded as COVID deaths!" Okay, then how about the automobile death data? Did automobile death data suddenly go to zero, this year? I'm not going to look it up. But ya'll can.

Once again: My disclaimer. I'm just toying around. Not taking this seriously. Very little proofreading. It probably doesn't come across in the writing, but this is not me blustering or pounding on the table. I'm kinda chuckling and having some fun. So PLEASE take everything I write with a grain of salt, and I don't mean to sound like I'm disrespecting anyone. I look forward to seeing other opinions!

Be well!
And even the CDC admitted at one time that as much as 94% of the Covid deaths were not actually FROM Covid. Still slightly higher or about equal to a severe Flu year. But not anywhere near the deadly pandemic it is made out to be.

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I hear Pfizer will have a omicron specific shot out by March.
Are they expecting us to get a new shot every time they come out with a new variant?
I got my 2 initial shots, then i got the booster. I am jumping off this merry go round. No more for me.
Just follow the money, look who is making a fortune off of this.
 

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I hear Pfizer will have a omicron specific shot out by March.
Are they expecting us to get a new shot every time they come out with a new variant?
I got my 2 initial shots, then i got the booster. I am jumping off this merry go round. No more for me.
Just follow the money, look who is making a fortune off of this.
We don't know who it making a fortune off of this. That's the completely non-transparent part. Where there's lack of transparency, there's a reason. Why do pharmaceutical CEO's make even more ridiculously high compensation than other CEO's? BTW, I have no problem with CEO's making good money. An honest one earns it. I used to be one and it's a hard job to put it mildly. Most people wouldn't even consider doing it for any amount of money if they knew what it really involved.
 

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My biggest question, based on your comment is, "What happens when all of this blows up in everyone's faces?" And when? Next year. Fifty years (when it's too late to punish anyone)?

And who will be vilified? The unvaxxed? The Vaxxed? Fauci? Who?

There is a boatload of uncertainty about it all.

--Wag--
 
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