National Gun Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wondering which of two rifles is more reliable. I'm talking drag it through mud, throw it off a cliff, end of the world, and don't clean for thousands of rounds and keeps functioning. Not accuracy, not firepower, but sheer "AK" like reliability. The two rifles are the Barret REC7 18 inch barrel in 5.56 and the LWRC IC enhanced with an 18 inch barrel in 5.56.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,559 Posts
I posted an answer to this kind of question the other day. AR and AK's are different critters. It doesn't really make much difference which company makes them. I build my own guns because I like building guns.

If you drive a truck over an AK or an AR, you WILL break it. If nothing else, you'll bend the barrel.

As for piston versus gas impingement, piston is better. The gassed and associated gunk don't come back to the upper receiver for an AR. That makes for less cleaning. The physical forces though on the bolt carrier can cause wear over thousands of rounds for a piton driven AR. However, keep the rifle clean and lubricated, No Problem

Yes, yo0u can drop an AK in mud, pick it up and it will fire fine and spit muck out of the barrel with the bullet. The difference is that the AK has shitty accuracy and the AR has excellent accuracy. Granted, in a combat situation it doesn't matter too much WHERE you hit the enemy as long as you hit them and put them down and out of action. So, for that the AK works fine. If you want to put an enemy down from distance, use an AR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the response, that was my first post here. I understand that the AK and the AR are totally different platforms but I want an AR that is as close to the reliability of an AK as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,559 Posts
There isn't much in the way of steel cased ammo in 5.56 / .223. I have built an AR pistol for 7.62x39 and it eats any ammo I feed it which is mostly steel cased. Reliable? yes it is. I built it. Would I want mud int he barrel? Of course not. Would it fire with mud in the barrel? Yes it would.

The only drawback with the steel cased ammo is that you can't reload the casings. Same with my 1911 .45. It will fire anything I give it but I can't reload the steel casings when I use steel cased cartridges.

the Rec7 is only available in 5.56/.223 or 6.8mm SPC. 6.8 ammo isn't very cheap. You aren't going to find .223 ammo much with steel casings and .223 ammo isn't very expensive. Only with 7.62x39 ammo do you need to concern yourself with steel casings. There is a LOT of Russian surplus steel cased 7.62x39 ammo out there cheap. That's what an AK is for OR the AR pistol I designed and built.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Steel cased 556

There isn't much in the way of steel cased ammo in 5.56 / .223. I have built an AR pistol for 7.62x39 and it eats any ammo I feed it which is mostly steel cased. Reliable? yes it is. I built it. Would I want mud int he barrel? Of course not. Would it fire with mud in the barrel? Yes it would.

The only drawback with the steel cased ammo is that you can't reload the casings. Same with my 1911 .45. It will fire anything I give it but I can't reload the steel casings when I use steel cased cartridges.

the Rec7 is only available in 5.56/.223 or 6.8mm SPC. 6.8 ammo isn't very cheap. You aren't going to find .223 ammo much with steel casings and .223 ammo isn't very expensive. Only with 7.62x39 ammo do you need to concern yourself with steel casings. There is a LOT of Russian surplus steel cased 7.62x39 ammo out there cheap. That's what an AK is for OR the AR pistol I designed and built.
I know wolf and tulammo make steel cased 556 and I think Privipartizan does as well so wondering if the Rec7 will run it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,608 Posts

·
Ancient Gaseous Emanation
Joined
·
55,084 Posts
Ya wanna run mild steel cased ammo without eventually doing damage to the firearm? Get one with a chrome lined chamber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,559 Posts
I know wolf and tulammo make steel cased 556 and I think Privipartizan does as well so wondering if the Rec7 will run it.
Yes, the Rec7 will shoot it. So would probably any AR. You can't reload the casings is all. The steel casings are a bit thinner than brass casings and can't really be reloaded (except for an absolute emergency). They were designed to be one time shot casings. Yes, they will fire fine.

The Rec7 is certainly a fine rifle. Keep it lubricated if you buy one. Every AR should run kind of wet. That makes them last longer with thousands of rounds going through the barrel. The barrel is where the worst will happen as the rifling threads wear down. This is true also for an AK. The receiver for an AK is much less finicky than the receivers of the AR platform are. As I mentioned previously though, the AR is far more accurate than an AK. The obvious solution to this small dilemma is have one of each.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts
Both the REC7 and the LWRC are quality rifles. I have seen the REC7 lay down some nice groups, no so much for the LWRC, but both are high quality, very reliable rifles.

Both rifles will shoot steel case ammo "fine". The issue with steel case ammo is, it tends to "stick" in the chamber when you get the rifle hot (hot as in, high volume shooting).

I don't understand the "AK reliability" question. That's pretty much a myth and chatter from the uneducated/uninformed. To be clear here, a quality AR is just as if not more reliable than an AK.

As far as DI and a piston rifle go, I have and shoot both. Honestly I don't have a preference, I simply cant tell any real measureable difference in the way of reliability. Yeah, there is more cleaning involved with the DI rifle, it's just a non issue with me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ak like

Both the REC7 and the LWRC are quality rifles. I have seen the REC7 lay down some nice groups, no so much for the LWRC, but both are high quality, very reliable rifles.

Both rifles will shoot steel case ammo "fine". The issue with steel case ammo is, it tends to "stick" in the chamber when you get the rifle hot (hot as in, high volume shooting).

I don't understand the "AK reliability" question. That's pretty much a myth and chatter from the uneducated/uninformed. To be clear here, a quality AR is just as if not more reliable than an AK.

As far as DI and a piston rifle go, I have and shoot both. Honestly I don't have a preference, I simply cant tell any real measureable difference in the way of reliability. Yeah, there is more cleaning involved with the DI rifle, it's just a non issue with me.
What I mean by the "AK like"reliability is what is commonly perceived as being reliable, because the AK is the pinnacle of reliable rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,709 Posts
I have two AR-type rifles, the DPMS LR-308T and the DPMS Gen II AP4. Both are .308. Both are DI.

It takes a lot of shooting to get the LR-308T dirty. And never even once have I found anything in the gas tube. To do I use white pipe cleaners, so anything would show up if it were in there.

The Gen II AP4 gets dirty instantly -- all over the bolt carrier, inside the bolt carrier, and lots inside the gas tube, too.

I don't know why there is such a big difference, but at least, some rifles are way dirtier than others, even when they're pretty much the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts
What I mean by the "AK like"reliability is what is commonly perceived as being reliable, because the AK is the pinnacle of reliable rifles.
Overall they are very reliable rifles. However, you do realize that they sell parts for AKs right? The AK is not some magic voodoo, impervious to mechanical failure. It is not somehow immune to FTF, FTE, a dud round, or just plane jamming up. I will also state, as a matter of fact, they are not somehow exempt from the law of physics in regards to mud.

I'm not knocking on Aks here, just adding some reality to what is "commonly perceived".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yeah I get that but underneath the dust cover of an AK there is a lot more room for mud to go to and not be in the way of the mechanical parts. On an AR there is far less room and the mud gets packed right in with the mehanical and moving parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Overall they are very reliable rifles. However, you do realize that they sell parts for AKs right? The AK is not some magic voodoo, impervious to mechanical failure. It is not somehow immune to FTF, FTE, a dud round, or just plane jamming up. I will also state, as a matter of fact, they are not somehow exempt from the law of physics in regards to mud.

I'm not knocking on Aks here, just adding some reality to what is "commonly perceived".
Yes I also realize that AK's can jam and break.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts
Yeah I get that but underneath the dust cover of an AK there is a lot more room for mud to go to and not be in the way of the mechanical parts. On an AR there is far less room and the mud gets packed right in with the mehanical and moving parts.
Ummm, ok.
 

·
Ancient Gaseous Emanation
Joined
·
55,084 Posts
Yeah I get that but underneath the dust cover of an AK there is a lot more room for mud to go to and not be in the way of the mechanical parts. On an AR there is far less room and the mud gets packed right in with the mehanical and moving parts.
Lotsa mud where you live?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,559 Posts
Yeah I get that but underneath the dust cover of an AK there is a lot more room for mud to go to and not be in the way of the mechanical parts. On an AR there is far less room and the mud gets packed right in with the mehanical and moving parts.
Do you plan on dropping your guns in mud puddles? Personally, I take care of my guns.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top