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Chicago Pro-Gun Activist
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Baldy, just tried the link and it made the connection. That was one funny cartoon!
 

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Iron Maiden
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A very erudite response Mr Bianchi, and one I agree with wholeheartedly, along with other views posted by other members.
While I have a more emotional response based on the fact that I'm a woman - I cry every time I see something on TV about our troops being harmed - I do think we have to make a stand against a very determined enemy, an enemy that has accumulated centuries of hatred. Remember the crusades.... They do! But I do fear that no matter what we do in the middle east militarily, it will not end there, and the enmity felt for the West will continue unabated. We can unfortunately not be at war for ever, and as long as there is Christian, Muslim and Jew, there will always be this antagonism.

A very good book on the subject is Karen Armstrong's "Holy War: The Crusades and their impact on today's world". It's an eye-opener, and well worth the read.............
 

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Harley Dude
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SheNine said:
A very erudite response Mr Bianchi, and one I agree with wholeheartedly, along with other views posted by other members.
While I have a more emotional response based on the fact that I'm a woman - I cry every time I see something on TV about our troops being harmed - I do think we have to make a stand against a very determined enemy, an enemy that has accumulated centuries of hatred. Remember the crusades.... They do! But I do fear that no matter what we do in the middle east militarily, it will not end there, and the enmity felt for the West will continue unabated. We can unfortunately not be at war for ever, and as long as there is Christian, Muslim and Jew, there will always be this antagonism.

A very good book on the subject is Karen Armstrong's "Holy War: The Crusades and their impact on today's world". It's an eye-opener, and well worth the read.............

Now thats a book I need to read.

I agree with your assessment above and do think there will be a world war to deal with the inability of Islam to accept other religions. I just don't think it is possible to avoid unless there is a major change it their thinking within the next 25-50 years.
 

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Iron Maiden
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sig232 said:
I agree with your assessment above and do think there will be a world war to deal with the inability of Islam to accept other religions. I just don't think it is possible to avoid unless there is a major change it their thinking within the next 25-50 years.
Unfortunately I think it is not just Islam that is to blame.... RELIGION is to blame! The worldwide phenomena of culture and religion being so tighly bound to each other is what causes a lot of the tension.

I have been a lifelong student of comparative religion, and if you look at the history of the world, there have been more wars, deaths and destruction in the name of religion than any other reason. Mankind needs to stop trying to create a world where everyone thinks and believes the same. It will never work. There has to be acceptance and allowance for others to have their culture and beliefs within their own space.......
 
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The military genius of the 20th century said "may God have mercy on my enemy because I sure as hell won't"
Gen George Patton

Like was said earlier, get the news media and politicians out of the way and send a kick-ass general to do the job right,
 
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whompuss said:
The military genius of the 20th century said "may God have mercy on my enemy because I sure as hell won't"
Gen George Patton

Like was said earlier, get the news media and politicians out of the way and send a kick-ass general to do the job right,
You hear a lot about allowing the troops to "take the gloves off" and "kick ass" and all that, but what does that mean exactly? We kill the enemy when we can identify him as such - normally when he shoots at us or tries to blow us up. Unfortunately, he blends in perfectly with the non-combatant population when he's not fighting, since he wears no uniform.

"Taking the gloves off" or "kicking ass" would mean either invading more countries (like Pakistan, for example) or killing scores of non-combatants to get to our enemies. We can't really handle the two fronts we have open now, never mind opening a third or fourth. And I certainly don't want to wipe out whole villages of Afghans just to kill a couple Taliban who are hiding there.

This war will not be won just by killing the enemy. It's not like Patton's WWII - it's just not that simple.
 
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As Far as I can see its a Bush war,wasint this started by his Daddy in 91? why are the troops there
?
 
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trying to stop terrorist from hitting our shores again. let them fight there battle over there. not here.
 
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leeindy said:
let them fight there battle over there. not here.
Does anyone seriously believe that invading Iraq has made it more difficult for al-Qaeda to strike the US? I'd love to hear why.

And Afghanistan? All we did was drive them into Pakistan, which we won't invade because it is ostensibly a "friendly" nation. I am not sure why it would be harder to plot attacks from Pakistan instead of Afghanistan. But there they sit in the mountains of Pakistan, coming down occasionally to kill American and NATO troops and generally make life miserable for everyday Afghans. Whack-a-mole, anyone?

Denying terrorists a safe haven is a fine idea in theory, but if we really want to follow through on that, we will have to invade every nation in the Middle East (except Israel) and most of Africa. We're spread rather thinly on two fronts already, never mind opening up a dozen or two more.
 
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They have the whole world on tenderhooks and it sux! they can strike where ever they want to,because fanatics like them come in all shapes colour and size, Its Discusting :x They use every thing from Children to GrandMothers,Pathetic :evil:
 
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I don't agree with everything Bush has done- but we can't cut and run like Clinton did. That gave the towel heads the opinion that in the long run we'll fold. :!:
 

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Iron Maiden
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whompuss said:
I don't agree with everything Bush has done- but we can't cut and run like Clinton did. That gave the towel heads the opinion that in the long run we'll fold. :!:
I agree, but what is the solution? We can't be fighting this forever, 'cause terrorists will always exist in some form or another.
 
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whompuss said:
I don't agree with everything Bush has done- but we can't cut and run like Clinton did. That gave the towel heads the opinion that in the long run we'll fold. :!:
I agree with U "W"! dont let them get an edge....Give them an Inch they Will Take A Mile.......... :evil:
 
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whompuss said:
I don't agree with everything Bush has done- but we can't cut and run like Clinton did. That gave the towel heads the opinion that in the long run we'll fold. :!:
"Cutting and running?" That's just another meaningless GOP talking/propaganda point (and I say that as a card-carrying Republican). Let's hypothetically say we pulled out right now. We will have given the Iraqis four years, at least three elections, billions of American taxpayer dollars, and the lives of 3600+ good Americans. If they choose to squander those precious gifts - and they have - then they do not deserve more. But that is hardly a hasty retreat.

I think it was Albert Einstein who defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." It's not cutting and running when you see your efforts are being expended futilely. And regardless of how many mouthpiece company-, field- and flag-grade officers The Weekly Standard can dig up who insist that the Iraq war is going well and that they want to stay and "finish the job" (whatever that job may actually be), out of several dozen enlisted men I have talked to at length about Iraq, not a single one thinks that country is worth it. And not a damn one would volunteer to go back.

As the President likes to say, listen to the "troops on the ground" - not the ones who get career points for going along with the administration.
 

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Harley Dude
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Mike Barham said:
leeindy said:
let them fight there battle over there. not here.
Does anyone seriously believe that invading Iraq has made it more difficult for al-Qaeda to strike the US? I'd love to hear why.

And Afghanistan? All we did was drive them into Pakistan, which we won't invade because it is ostensibly a "friendly" nation. I am not sure why it would be harder to plot attacks from Pakistan instead of Afghanistan. But there they sit in the mountains of Pakistan, coming down occasionally to kill American and NATO troops and generally make life miserable for everyday Afghans. Whack-a-mole, anyone?

Denying terrorists a safe haven is a fine idea in theory, but if we really want to follow through on that, we will have to invade every nation in the Middle East (except Israel) and most of Africa. We're spread rather thinly on two fronts already, never mind opening up a dozen or two more.
I do see your point and agree with much of what you say. But..........I do think the resources of the Islamic Radicals is limited and they choose to direct those resources into the war effort in Iraq and Afganistan, currently. If and when we pull out they will redirect their attention and resources back to the free world.

I grieve for the loss of one of our troops but if we kill them in the ratio of 100 to 1 or 1,000 to one are we ahead or are they winning? If they choose to strike terror into Iraq and Afgan and kill their own people, will not their own people soon wake up and realize they are killing their own and turn on the radicals? If we leave will they then be able to come to American and kill us in the reverse of that ratio, since they will be bombing our shopping centers, trains, buses, trucks, planes, and markets? What do you think?

It is Islam that has chosen not to cooexist with christians and other religions. Other religions have accepted them with open arms, into Europe and America. Israel knows that the only way to deal with Muslims is through strength and to meet an attack with two attacks, thats all radical muslims understand and respect. If you show weakness you and your famlies will be killed in your favorite church. They have no boundries when it comes to violence. They are merchants of fear and thats the only thing that they understand, FEAR! They will never work out a deal, negoiate a settlement, or truce.

Like a Grizzley bear that has tasted blood and is circling your cabin, you will have to kill him to stop the attack! He will not go away and will never give up!
 
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sig232 said:
I do see your point and agree with much of what you say. But..........I do think the resources of the Islamic Radicals is limited and they choose to direct those resources into the war effort in Iraq and Afganistan, currently. If and when we pull out they will redirect their attention and resources back to the free world.
But they are ALREADY doing that. London, Madrid, Bali, etc., hello?

I grieve for the loss of one of our troops but if we kill them in the ratio of 100 to 1 or 1,000 to one are we ahead or are they winning? If they choose to strike terror into Iraq and Afgan and kill their own people, will not their own people soon wake up and realize they are killing their own and turn on the radicals? If we leave will they then be able to come to American and kill us in the reverse of that ratio, since they will be bombing our shopping centers, trains, buses, trucks, planes, and markets? What do you think?
Everyone all the way up to Donald Rumsfeld has admitted that the Iraq war has created more terrorist/insurgents than it has killed. What's the point in killing a hundred of them if doing so creates a thousand more? Are we better or worse off?

Anyway, most of the guys fighting us in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't al-Qaeda. They are groups like "al-Qaeda in Iraq" which isn't the same thing. These guys might fight us here, simply because we are here occupying their countries. But most of them would not mount an operation in far-off America. They have neither the inclination nor the resources.

It is Islam that has chosen not to cooexist with christians and other religions. Other religions have accepted them with open arms, into Europe and America. Israel knows that the only way to deal with Muslims is through strength and to meet an attack with two attacks, thats all radical muslims understand and respect. If you show weakness you and your famlies will be killed in your favorite church. They have no boundries when it comes to violence. They are merchants of fear and thats the only thing that they understand, FEAR! They will never work out a deal, negoiate a settlement, or truce.

Like a Grizzley bear that has tasted blood and is circling your cabin, you will have to kill him to stop the attack! He will not go away and will never give up!
I agree with this. But if your really want to do that, it will require opening more fronts in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and eventually many others. Are you prepared for general war against the Muslim world? Thirty years of war will wreck our society just as surely as submitting to Islam, and make our country unrecognizable. You'd have a draft, rationing, restrictions on individual rights, etc. War is never good for liberty.
 
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