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Discussion Starter #1
i would like to start a conversation regarding the rift between the to carry options.

It should be personal preference, and it is really about the 2nd Amendment after all!



Speak your mind, but remember, we are all brothers and sisters in this fight for the Constitution!
 

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In Texas its a very simple argument. Concealed carry is legal, open carry is not. I support OC, and would happy to see it approved in the state. Don't think its going to happen in the next year or two.
 

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The best argument I read.
The Constitution says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
So if the government puts restrictions on one carry option the other must be Constitutional carry.
The government wants control of both ways.

I say bearing arms is one thing with two choices.
People today seem to prefer out of sight out of mind.
But
I think? Out in the open probably serves all better.


“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
Robert A. Heinlein Quotes (Author of Stranger in a Strange Land)
Robert A. Heinlein



 

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I live in Pa, and have all my life, and as I have said before, when this subject has come up on this forum, I am glad that for now this is a pro gun state, with open carry, concealed carry, and stand your ground law. And I hope it stays this way. As for other states that are anything but pro gun, I would believe it would be very hard to turn things around any time soon. It is up to the sheriff in each county here to isse a LTCF, and some counties are quick in issuing the permit and some are very slow. But you still must pass the background check in any county. The sheriffs office has. 45 days to reply either way to your application. The county I live in is very quick to reply to your application. Now in regards to personal preference, I have a LTCF and I can open carry anywhere in this state, except Philadelphia, where you have to have a LTCF to even open carry. So I could there also, but someone without one could not. Now I personally do not open carry, except on hiking trails and game lands and state forests, even though I could open carry anywhere I choose to except where posted not to. I have lived in this state for 69 years, and maybe I wasn't at the right place at the right time, but in all these years I have NEVER seen anyone open carrying. I have read newspaper articles about it, but never personally seen it, and I am not against it. As far as concealed carry, I do on occasion, depending on the area I am traveling in. I mostly make use of my LTCF to keep my revolver loaded in the car while traveling from place to place in this state. To each his own. I hope I always have this freedom concerning a hand gun in this state. However it is against the law in Pa. to have a loaded long gun in a vehicle.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Where (Maine and Virginia) and when (1940s and 1950s) I grew up, open carry was rather common. BUT it was considered good form to remove said firearm when entering a populated area (town). Politeness and good manners seem to be the missing ingredients in this recent (and misguided, I believe) push for 'open carry'.
 

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I prefer conceal carry because it leaves the bad guys wondering who's carrying and who isn't. However, there should not be any infringement if one wants to carry open or concealed, because sometimes carrying concealed is not practical.
 

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i would like to start a conversation regarding the rift between the to carry options.

It should be personal preference, and it is really about the 2nd Amendment after all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tDYtf_tEckSpeak your mind, but remember, we are all brothers and sisters in this fight for the Constitution!

A lot of things are personal preference, and a lot of our preferences fall within our Constitutional rights. But not all of those choices carry the same baggage. We have freedom of speech - including use of the N word, the C word, and so forth, but some speech is considered OK in polite society, and some isn't. Some speech can even get you fired, some can get you arrested. We have freedom of religion, but if you think animal sacrifice isn't going to bring outrage, you're not thinking. We have freedom of association. Whom do you respect - the crackheads, and druggies, or the doctors who work to cure them? Yeah, we have freedom of the press, but is the pornographer held in the same esteem as the great philosopher?


Here in Arizona, we have the most gun-friendly laws in the country. We enjoy Constitutional concealed carry as well as open carry. Your preference. I respect the person exercising his concealed carry option. I am annoyed and irritated at the attention whore who is open carrying a rifle in an urban environment. Slightly less so with open carry of handguns, but only slightly less. Open carry is fine (even I do it) when hiking in the wilderness (we call it the desert out here), in hunting camp, or in some other outdoorsy rural pursuit. But please, in stores, restaurants, parks, offices, wherever in else in public, carry concealed, or not at all. And no, I don't want to hear your side of it - I know all the arguments for open carry and I reject them.
 

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I think it would be a great pleasure to open carry and never have a question asked or eyebrow raised. But I don't think it will happen in my lifetime - it hasn't happened yet and things are not looking better.

I think the constitution is clear "...shall not be infringed." but I'm not sure our forefathers ever thought "arms" might mean nuclear or chemical. So what that suggests is times have changed...sometimes laws/rules need to change perhaps even if it means the constitution needs modification.

If that needs to happen it should be by the people - not just politicians, money-bags or a selective force that isn't affected by the rules. << This rule is already in place but is not honored. This is part of the problem. If we could fix it, we might fix a lot of other issues too.

Open or concealed carry can and is being done without incident...I hope it continues.
 

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i would like to start a conversation regarding the rift between the to carry options.

It should be personal preference, and it is really about the 2nd Amendment after all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tDYtf_tEck


Speak your mind, but remember, we are all brothers and sisters in this fight for the Constitution!
You're correct - it is about the second amendment. And open carry in areas where people are not (and never will be) accustomed to seeing firearms on non LEO's does more to HURT our second amendment rights than anything else. A high price to pay to satisfy OC'er's craving for attention.
 

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I have to agree with all the above. As long as it's in the constitution and people have the right to buy & carry arms, how they carry them (concealed or open) should be a matter of personal choice, and the law, be it federal, state, or local, should go no further in limiting their choices.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Open carry is fine in its place, but when a bunch of OC activists appeared inside a Jack in the Box restaurant in Texas, the employees locked themselves in the freezer in fear. Now everybody's 2A rights suffer.
That turned out to be a media lie, it was a passer buy, that called, here is the quote from CJ, and the ONLY 911 call.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Open carry advocates legally exercising their right to keep and bear arms made news last week in Fort Worth. Several media agencies immediately reported the presence of armed individuals at the Jack In The Box resulted in employees "locking themselves inside a freezer for protection out of fear the rifle-carrying men would rob them."

Open Carry Texas reached out to the Fort Worth Police Department and Jack In The Box headquarters to verify this report. While Fort Worth Police Department has failed to explain their statement to the media, Jack In The Box Director of Asset Protection Gene James made the following statement:

"What I can raise my hand on and swear to an oath is that what I was told by my employees is that they did not seek refuge in the freezer. On its face, the freezer thing make no sense."

Open Carry Texas obtained a copy of the 911 call that resulted in no less than nine patrol cars and 15 officers arriving on scene. The 911 call was not made by an employee or customer inside the Jack In The Box, but by a passerby leaving a nearby Home Depot. He reported seeing armed demonstrators walking "towards" the restaurant.

"It looks I like I seen[sic] four caucasian or white men walking towards the Jack In The Box located off the highway, uh, walking with assault assault rifles and cameras just walking casually through the parking lot."

The caller later stated, "they're all wearing, you know, three of them are wearing shorts. They just, you know, dressed casually walking around casually with what looked like assault rifles."

Open Carry Texas will be releasing the 911 audio once we have been able to edit out personal identifying information later today.

 

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That turned out to be a media lie, it was a passer buy, that called, here is the quote from CJ, and the ONLY 911 call.
What lie? The freezer or the result? Jack in the Box corporate has now ordered all their locations in states where it is possible to bar firearms. A few yahoos carrying ARs have made a mess. I can't for the life of me see a silver lining to this type of mindless "demonstration." There is no possible way that any single person will be convinced to support open carry over this mess, yet it is easy to see how much this type of thing will cost us support. Who cares who called 911? People were frightened. 9 radio cars responded. We all lost - one more chain of restaurants will now ban our presence. I have been keeping and bearing arms for over half a century, and never scared anyone who was not a direct threat to me. Enjoy your "victory." Cry all you want about the "media lie." This sort of stuff drives legitimate open carry further toward a dark corner of a lunatic fringe, and away from the mainstream, where many of us would rather it reside. Open carry for a purpose involving possible firearms use is already legal, but open carry for no more purpose than to garner publicity puts that status in jeopardy. Do you guys take money from Bloomberg? Or did he get a freebee?
 

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It amazes me that this debate or argument has been around for well over 100 years. In Texas, when the Rangers were a small fledgling state operated "special force", one of the things they had to do was to assist town sheriffs in enforcing a "no carry in town law". A lot of areas of the state had no gun rules in place to try and curb outlaws and drunks and hell raisers from unnecessary use of guns to get their point across. So, the ones who wanted to have a gun on them found creative ways to carry them. As early as the 1870-1880`s laws were in place for no carry or no open carry. . I`m rereading a book about the history of the Rangers called " Wearing of the Cinco Peso" by Mike Cox. They used to,get a cinco (5) cent (peso) piece of Mexican denomination and carve their badges out of the silver coin.The 5 pointed star within a circle is still the badge worn today by the Rangers. Anyway, the argument on this is an old one. I for one like the option of open carry but I carry concealed in public, open carry when out in the wild. Here in Indiana they have open or conceled carry once you get a permit. If my shirt rides up while doing something and my revolver gets exposed, I don`t have to worry about getting thrown in jail. But I`m not one to strut around and show off to people that I carry. Like a lot of others here, it irritates the crap out of me seeing some joker strutting around with an AR claiming it`s his right to do so. John Q. Public gets nervous about seeing that happen. Hell, I get nervous seeing someone do that. To me it`s a matter of common courtesy. Kinda like spitting on the floor, it just ain`t right.
 

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It all come back to common courtesy and having at least some respect for your fellow Americans. For better or for worse, there are a lot of people out there who fear all guns and who also fear us for carrying them. You cannot force your lifestyle choices on another person. It's just not right.

So every once in a while a 2nd Amendment fringe advocate decides to make a YouTube video to show off how clever he is and how well he knows the law so he struts around in public with an AR on his back demanding that he has the right to carry it and everyone else has to accept it. I wonder how open minded this guy would be if a flamboyant, openly gay person strutted around in front of him dressed in all rainbow colors, making out with his or her partner, and demanding that it is their right and that every one else has to accept it. Yes both the 2nd Amendment activist and the gay activist are both technically right, but shouldn't they both have enough respect for each other to stay out of each others' way?

These AR toting wackos make me embarrassed to be a gun owner and they are a very big reason why I prefer to conceal carry as opposed to open carry. I don't want to be associated with them.
 

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In MO, we are both. In the small towns and country I open carry sometimes, but the bigger cities and counties frown on it and the cops may even stop you and question you at least that's what I have seen on the news. I mainly CCW because of respect for the over reactive libs, don't want the trouble from the libtards.
 

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We had a 19 year old jack ass in San Antone decide to go out walking in town with his AR. Several neighbors called the police, some said he pointed the rifle at them. When the cops showed up, the first cop told him to turn his ass around, take his weapon home and leave it there. The boy decided he wanted to argue his rights instead of following the cop's instructions. Then a police sergeant showed up and asked if the gun was loaded - it was. He told the boy to lay the gun on the ground and step away from it. The boy refused, arguing about his rights. So he was arrested. Texas allows open carry of rifles, San Antonio does not. The state is working to have all municipal laws changed to allign with those of the state. Of course this dillwad, pushed things to the extreme. State law supersedes municipal law, but disobeying a police officer performing his job, pointing a weapon at neighbors and being a PITA gave the cops all the justification they needed to arrest the little POS. San Antonio must be getting more progressive. Twenty years ago they would have shot a clown for holding a loaded weapon and refusing to put it down when directed to do so by the cops. Of course his actions are only going to make it that much harder to line up state legislators to push open carry at the next session.
 

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Open carry of a handgun can be done without arousing too much fear and loathing. A small holster on a belt is not very exciting, but these loons who simply must carry their "tacticool" rifles and shotguns around as if that was their EDC drive even gun freaks like me over the edge. Why can't these demonstrators exercise their 2A rights with some discretion, with some sensitivity, with some common sense. The law allows for cars with 74 HP 4 cylinder engines as well as 600 HP V12 engines, but they must be muffled and they both must be driven within socially acceptable limits. I know, driving is a privilege and keeping and bearing arms is a right, but even so, some discretion is called for.
Open carry in urban settings for handguns only might be a reasonable compromise - and even though I hate that word - it might be the best Texans can hope for at this point.
 

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"in your face" type actions..........such OC stunts sort of remind me of westboro baptist church........designed to bring attention while wrapping one's self up in the flag and saying it is constitutional and their "right"...........same book just a different page..........


OC proponents had best pay attention on the tactics or they may very well find that while they may be "right", they may end up alienating public support by their methods. That means votes, and that means trouble..........
 
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