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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Common Sense and Gun Laws, why can't we have both?


Every time we have a “Mass Shooting” the anti-gun crowd immediately calls for Common Sense, meaningful gun laws to be passed. Most of what is mentioned in the Media promotes this cry and the public is forced to go along to get along with these ill informed, wrong headed ideas. What they want will not work,hasn't worked and will never work. Laws only work when the people obey them. Criminals, by definition, do not. That's why they are criminals. Take “Gun Free Zones” for example. Federal Buildings are Gun Free Zones and have metal detectors and armed guards to ensure that they remain that way. Hanging a “No Firearms” sign on your front door is like posting a “No Sharks” sign at the beach.It may make the lifeguards and Park Police feel good, but, they are still going to be pulling bloody bodies out of the water because sharks don't read, just like criminals don't obey laws.


Where is the common sense in passing more laws when they aren't enforcing the ones we already have?


So I have a few suggestions which mayor may not go over well with the anti-gun crowd, but, I at least tried to use a little common sense while crafting them.


First off, UBC will not work if the data base is not up to date. President Trump gave us Fix NICS and after reading it, I can tell you that it is a good idea, but,woefully lacking in effect. It only applies to Federal agencies and they must report valid information to NICS every six months. So if someone is convicted of a violent felony or domestic abuse and becomes a prohibited person at that point, they still have up to six months to purchase a firearm and can still pass the UBC. How about this? We live in the age of computers and the internet which give us instant access to unlimited information so why can't the Government use that same technology to make NICS work the way it was intended.Let's use that elusive common sense and start by really fixing NCIC. Any and all prohibiting convictions could be reported to NICS within 7 days. Come on Washington, every court in the country uses computers and has internet access. Can't you guys get on the same page? Before you start passing more laws, maybe you should make sure the system your laws depend on actually works the way it is meant to. Three days to do a check and now they are talking about making it ten days? In Nevada we use our own system which is probably more up to date and much more thorough than NICS and it only takes about three minutes.


After we manage that, then we should address the Universal Background Check. My idea on this is both simple and effective and should actually work. The Federal Government has already mandated the Real ID program and once they fix NICS, all of the state DMV's could do the background check for all Driver License and ID's when they are issued. What's an extra three minutes at DMV when you have already waited three hours for your turn at the window? Prohibited persons would have a “No Firearms” symbol printed on the front of their ID which would prevent them from buying a firearm legally. Anyone convicted of a crime which voids their firearms rights would get a “No Firearms” symbol on their ID.While they are at it maybe they could require an ID to vote, just a thought.


Secondly, I feel that it is about time that we re-visit arming teachers. The “gun free” school idea has been a abject failure and the kids have paid the price. My idea on this one is so simple I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned before. Require all school personnel to carry a “Fanny Pack” at all times. They make the students wear uniforms, why not do the same for teachers. I know, not a great fashion statement, but who cares as long as it works. We can allow any and all school personnel who wish to qualify for concealed carry to do so. Training can be provided at low or no cost by local Police Departments, they can certainly use the good press, and they may be able to furnish firearms from their seized property lockers, also at low or no cost, and if not I'm sure the local firearms dealers would be more than happy to help out with discounts. This program would be voluntary and no one would be required to carry a firearm, however, the “Fanny Pack” would be mandatory. The local State Farm agents might even donate those. With a few, or many, armed personnel walking around the school, anyone thinking of attacking might just re-think their decision and walkaway. After all, in almost of the mass shootings where the shooter met armed resistance, they either gave up or shot themselves. Those that didn't were quickly dispatched or arrested. I know, people don't like the idea of arming teachers, but, I have a hard time believing that those same teachers wouldn't rather die shooting back than huddling in the corner trying to cover up their charges. Given the choice, I truly believe that at least some of them would rather be shooting back. We should also remember that the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment gives them that right. The cost involved in this plan would also be substantially less than installing metal detectors and armed security officers at every school, and as an added bonus, it can help teach the students about the Constitution and how it was written for all Americans.


As to Red Flag Laws, that's not only putting us firmly on the slippery slope, it's shoving us right off the cliff. Not only do they rely on specious information, they violate the constitution in so many ways that we may as well throw the entire bill of rights out the window. Can anyone say “Due Process”? Recent events have pointed out in very clear terms that these laws, no matter their intent, are wholly pointless. The only people who profit from these laws will be the lawyers suing and winning over civil rights violations. Existing laws, coupled with diligent law enforcement, have removed several potential mass shooters from our midst in just the last few weeks. These people broke the law by posting threats and were arrested and their guns confiscated before they could harm themselves or others and no rights were violated. So you see, if the government does it's job and utilizes the power it already has, tragedies like mass shootings can and will be avoided.


My last idea I borrowed from someone else, but, it makes more sense so I'm using it. Let's punish people who commit gun crimes. You commit a crime with a gun, 5 years, no parole or early release. You fire that weapon during that crime, 10 years, no parole or early release. You wound someone, 15 years and you kill someone, LIFE. No parole, no early release. If the criminals are off the street, the crime rate goes down. Again, Common Sense.This actually serves two purposes in that it rids society of those who shouldn't be members, and it also makes those of us who are responsible gun owners mindful of our actions as well.


In closing, I have a question. Why is it that newspapers are not taxed because the people have a right to be informed and the newspaper is the most universally inexpensive way to accomplish that, but, they tax the heck out of firearms which is the most universally inexpensive method of self defense? Making firearm ownership cost prohibitive deprives the poorest among us of their rights to self defense. I would think that inner city residents are far more likely to need the protection firearms provide than middle class suburbanites. Shouldn't they be afforded the same protection as the rest of us?
 

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Keep calm & return fire!
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Thing is.....we DO NOT have a gun problem in this country. We have a mental health problem.
Efforts should be concentrated on fixing the mental health issue NOT adding completely ineffective gun laws to the 10’s of thousand that are already on the books.
One of the biggest mistakes this country ever made was the shuttering of mental health institutions.
 

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Grand Imperial Poobah
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There is no way in Hades, liberals, who have absolutely no common sense, can come up with common sense gun laws.
 

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Just because you add the words common sense to a phrase does not mean it's common sense. Everyone has different opinions on what would work. Some of my ideas won't stop most of these mass shootings but they will decrease murder, "gun deaths" and violent crime overall. Impose much stiffer sentences on any violent criminal. None of this 6 month crap for rape or armed robbery. No time off for good behavior. Harsh sentences for people caught stealing guns or in possession of guns if they are barred from owning the. At least a 10 year minimum sentence. Double or triple that if they use the gun in a crime. Many of our violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, if they are free they can commit the crimes. To me that's common sense.
 

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Common sense gun laws?

There is no such thing.
 
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Actually there is very little common sense any where any more.
Romans 1:28

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind...
 

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Just because you add the words common sense to a phrase does not mean it's common sense. Everyone has different opinions on what would work. Some of my ideas won't stop most of these mass shootings but they will decrease murder, "gun deaths" and violent crime overall. Impose much stiffer sentences on any violent criminal. None of this 6 month crap for rape or armed robbery. No time off for good behavior. Harsh sentences for people caught stealing guns or in possession of guns if they are barred from owning the. At least a 10 year minimum sentence. Double or triple that if they use the gun in a crime. Many of our violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, if they are free they can commit the crimes. To me that's common sense.
Why would the penalty be higher for a murder committed with a gun? Is the life taken with a knife any less valuable than the life taken with a gun?

If you think that murder with a gun needs a longer sentence then let us know what that extended sentence should be - and then apply that same sentence to any murder. Quit blaming the gun.
 

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Common Sense and Gun Laws, why can't we have both?
The Founders gave us common sense and the only gun law we've ever needed: The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


Every time we have a “Mass Shooting”the anti-gun crowd immediately calls for Common Sense, meaningful gun laws to be passed. Most of what is mentioned in the Media promotes this cry and the public is forced to go along to get along with these ill informed, wrong headed ideas. What they want will not work,hasn't worked and will never work. Laws only work when the people obey them. Criminals, by definition, do not. That's why they are criminals. Take “Gun Free Zones” for example. Federal Buildings are Gun Free Zones and have metal detectors and armed guards to ensure that they remain that way. Hanging a “No Firearms” sign on your front door is like posting a “No Sharks” sign at the beach.It may make the lifeguards and Park Police feel good, but, they are still going to be pulling bloody bodies out of the water because sharks don't read, just like criminals don't obey laws.


Where is the common sense in passing more laws when they aren't enforcing the ones we already have?


So I have a few suggestions which mayor may not go over well with the anti-gun crowd, but, I at least tried to use a little common sense while crafting them.
You were successful. There is as little common sense in these ideas as in any ideas I've seen.


First off, UBC will not work if the data base is not up to date. President Trump gave us Fix NCIC and after reading it, I can tell you that it is a good idea, but,woefully lacking in effect. It only applies to Federal agencies and they must report valid information to NCIC every six months. So if someone is convicted of a violent felony or domestic abuse and becomes a prohibited person at that point, they still have up to six months to purchase a firearm and can still pass the UBC. How about this? We live in the age of computers and the internet which give us instant access to unlimited information so why can't the Government use that same technology to make NCIC work the way it was intended.Let's use that elusive common sense and start by really fixing NCIC. Any and all prohibiting convictions could be reported to NCIC within 7 days. Come on Washington, every court in the country uses computers and has internet access. Can't you guys get on the same page? Before you start passing more laws, maybe you should make sure the system your laws depend on actually works the way it is meant to. Three days to do a check and now they are talking about making it ten days? In Nevada we use our own system which is probably more up to date and much more thorough than NCIC and it only takes about three minutes.
After we manage that, then we should address the Universal Background Check. My idea on this is both simple and effective and should actually work. The Federal Government has already mandated the Real ID program and once they fix NCIC, all of the state DMV's could do the background check for all Driver License and ID's when they are issued. What's an extra three minutes at DMV when you have already waited three hours for your turn at the window? Prohibited persons would have a “No Firearms” symbol printed on the front of their ID which would prevent them from buying a firearm legally. Anyone convicted of a crime which voids their firearms rights would get a “No Firearms” symbol on their ID.While they are at it maybe they could require an ID to vote, just a thought. [/QUOTE]

It's NICS, not NCIC. Different databases. Have you done any research into the topic while formulating ideas? I just wonder how you could do actual research and not catch your own error.

Are you suggesting that UBC would have worked with more up-to-date information? In which mass shooting would this have helped? This paragraph of yours proves my point of just how little common sense you managed to put into these ideas. Background checks are not the problem. In every mass shooting before Midland/Odessa, the gun was either stolen or legally owned - with a background check. Unfortunately for the gun rights person, the shooter in Midland broke the perfect record on background checks. Even so, that's 8 people killed and you're going to take away the rights of millions of honest gun owners?[/QUOTE]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry about the miss-spell of NICS. As to the failures of the system, Devin Kelley in the Southerland Springs Church shooting had a domestic violence conviction unreported by the military and he still passed background checks on at least three gun purchases. That was the basis for "fix nics" as well as the Charleston church shooting when Dylann Roof was able to purchase his firearm due to an administrative error. The point I was trying to make was that it makes no sense at all to institute a UBC based on a NICS system that doesn't work. Also, in no way did I suggest taking anyone's rights away. I simply suggested that the DMV does the background check on everyone, equally. Only prohibited persons would have "no firearms" symbols on their ID's.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Instead of marking DMV IDs, that are often fradulently produced, why not tattoo the information on individual's foreheads?

I believe if an individual cannot be allowed to exercise their Consitiutional Rights then they do not deserve to be walking around as free people. That's 'common sense'.
 

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Why would the penalty be higher for a murder committed with a gun? Is the life taken with a knife any less valuable than the life taken with a gun?

If you think that murder with a gun needs a longer sentence then let us know what that extended sentence should be - and then apply that same sentence to any murder. Quit blaming the gun.


I didn't mention murder except to say if violent people are kept off the streets our murder rates would be lower. Many murderers graduate to that crime after committing many other violent crimes beforehand. No murderer however the method should ever get out of prison except to make a trip to the morgue. I'm not blaming the gun, I'm blaming the people who use them for evil which is why i prefer stiffer sentences for them, not more gun laws that don't to anything to stop crime.
 

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Just a heads up, but when you use the phrase “ common sense gun laws“ it automatically says anti-gunner.
In NJ we have laws that say if you commit a crime with a gun, you get 3-5 years automatically. It hasn’t stopped all of the shootings in the urban hunting zones of Newark, Camden, Jersey City, Patterson, Trenton and any of the other civilized jungles our good citizens live in.
Commone sense says that we lock up these offenders and throw away the key instead of slapping them on the wrist and letting them back out. Let’s use the laws we currently have in place because that’s common sense.
 

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purty much against a natl id........sort of reminds me of "vere are your papers" out of a bad movie.....

i am against the UBC......its nothing more than filling the database with more info.....another law that will have more of an impact and financial burden on a lawful owner than any criminal. Do they really think this will stop the back lot truck stop and alley trade selling of firearms?

i have purty much already given away all of my firearms to my children.......right now i am just "storing" the guns for them, keeping them maintained, and regularly shooting them to make sure they are in good working order......for them of course.......

the govt can stick their ubc database where the sun don't shine..........
 

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Common Sense and Gun Laws, why can't we have both?


So I have a few suggestions,

First off, .....

Secondly, .....

As to Red Flag Laws, .....

My last idea .....

In closing, .....

.

There is NO SENSE to "common sense" gun laws!

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights forbids the Government to infringe on the rights of the people to keep and bear arms.
Yet, Since December 1791, Fedderal, State and Local Governments in US have enacted more than 20,000 gun laws.

Your just adding more. To me, the only thing that makes any sense is to subtract, not add.
 

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UBC absolutely REQUIRES gun registration in order to function. Always keep in mind that when the term UBC is used, it really means gun registration.

--Wag--
 

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UBC absolutely REQUIRES gun registration in order to function. Always keep in mind that when the term UBC is used, it really means gun registration.

--Wag--



Exactly! UBC is just the first step and when they show that it can't be enforced the registration plan comes out. It is impossible to enforce a law that says people have to sell their personal property a certain way. Like the old saying goes, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
 

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There is a reason we can not open mental hospitals again, Cost, if we were to warehouse all people with a mental problems, we will need a lot of room to put in all the DemocRATS!
 
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