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Hi,

My grandpa has several guns, 2-3 of which I'd like to bring home (of course if I can convince him) to Michigan, from his home in Ontario.

The guns in question are the 1st, 3rd, and 4th in the picture:



1st:
Some kind of really old muzzle-loader, definitely from before 1898. I think maybe an Enfield.

3rd:
British .303 S.M.L.E., I think 1895.

4th:
British .303 S.M.L.E., 19-- something, (I had a paper almost a year ago where all the details were, but it's long gone now).

Anyways, I am going up to his house for Christmas, and I wanted to bring back at least the two Enfields with me, especially since he won't probably be able to keep the guns, as he's probably moving out of his house soon.

What do I need to do? (Paperwork, money, FFL dealer, everything). I am 18, a resident of Michigan with dual American-Canadian citizenship. Also, he is a Canadian citizen if that makes any difference.

Thanks for any info!

Also, if there are any other guns in the picture that are definitely worth saving and I have overlooked, let me know.
 

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Dong Tam, RSVN '69/'70
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sumfer, welcome to the National Gun Forum! You may want to drop by our new members section and introduce yourself... we are a pretty friendly bunch once you get to know us.

As far as your questions.... I don't know the laws concerning bringing guns into the US from Canada. There are some here who will attempt to answer but this is an internet bulletin board/chat forum and you should never depend on any advice you get from strangers which may effect you legally.

Ask a gun shop (FFL) near where you live what you need to do to legally bring the guns home. That is the best advice I would give. You could ask your local police but as been demonstrated before police don't always know the laws concerning guns.

If you get the wrong advice and get caught doing something wrong you will not only serve some time but you will be giving up all of your rights to own a gun in your future. Think about what you are doing, go to someone where you live, and get the correct information.

All of that being said.... what is the handgun in the picture?

Don
 

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If you attempt to "smuggle" them across the boarder and are caught you are looking at hefty jail time and large fines - on either side of the boarder. You may have to find an importer here in the US that will accept shipment and then ship to a dealer in your area. Check into it before you make a costly mistake. The #1 is an antique.
The #'s 3 & 4 are "sporterized" military surplus firearms.
None of these three will sell for more than $350 US.

See below for one man's experiences:


How to Import Firearms from Canada into the U.S.:

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--- A personal experience, 1999 - Note: Laws, regulations and costs may have changed since ---

1. Find a seller and agree on the price and decide, who pays shipping and other fees. If you pay everything, your final cost will be 50%-100% higher than the selling price, depending mostly on quantity. (If you just import one gun, your final cost will be around twice the selling price) Firearms must be in Canada 5 years before they can be imported. (BATF rule)

2. Find the right importer (it took us 6 months to find one), we can recommend: Leroys Big Valley Gun Works
200 1st Avenue North
Glasgow, Montana USA 59230
Telephone: 406-228-4867
Contact Denise Tiffany

3. Send the following info with the copy your FFL/C&R, and the importer's fee to the importer: Make, model, caliber, length of barrel, serial number, price in US$

4. Importer will complete a BATF Form 6A, and send it to BATF for approval.

5. Wait 2-3 months (normally)

6. Importer will call you and the seller when approval is received. Pay seller (if you did not pay him yet - it's a good idea to withold the payment or just pay a deposit first, until BATF approval - just in case you are refused). I purchased a Certified Check at a bank during my business trip in Canada. You will have to pay an additional $25 to $75 (or so) if you buy a Cert. check or Money order in the U.S. in Canadian funds. I believe the importer has to send some paperwork to the seller to include in the box with the firearms - but I am not sure.

7. Wait again. Shipping firearms inside Canada is more restricted and expensive. The seller can shop around for the best price. My seller found a trucking company to ship to the border. It was about 25% cheaper than UPS.

8. The customs people will inspect and play with the firearms. Minor damages can be expected. I got one bolt jammed, loose pieces (bolts, handguards, and a dustcover were mixed and packed with the wrong rifles, but nothing significant. ;-)

9. The importer will pickup the firearms from customs.

10. The importer (Leroy's) stamps a very tiny import mark on the receiver in the slot under the bolt in the tang. The lettering height is less than 1/32 of an inch - almost totally invisible. I wish other importers would do it the same way.

11. Pay the importer the customs fees and the shipping to you. Wait some more.

12. The importer will ship to you (or to your FFL)

The cost of my purchase and importation:

(These costs were for 8 rifles, importing a smaller number of rifles will result in a higher per rifle costs. Customs fees vary, based in the value of the firearm, and the country of origin.)

I purchased the following 8 'Curio and Relic' rifles:

Swedish Ljungman AG42B
Canadian Ross M1910 Mk3
Japanese Mukden Arisaka M38
Thailand Arisaka M38
Siamese Mauser M1902
Swedish Oberndorf Mauser M96/38
Chinese Mauser M98k
French Berthier 1907/15 Turk Orman conv.
for a Total of US$532 ($800 canadian)

Cost of shipping from British Columbia to the border near Glasgow, Montana by a Canadian trucking company (found by the seller) was about US$120

Customs fees and transportation from the border to the importer in Glasgow was about US$90

Importer's fee to Leroys Big Valley Gun Works $80 ($10 per rifle, $50 minimum)

Shipping from Montana to Ohio was about $50 using RPS

The total cost of the 8 rifles was about US$870.

I hope, this helps. It is not as difficult as it looks. Good luck.






The following comments were submitted by Ken Buch:


- No 5 yr letter required except for surplus military.
- Handguns have some additional requirements.
- There is a excise fee due to ATF, 11% on rifles/shotguns and 10% on handguns based on your final cost including shipping.
- The wait now with ATF is closer to 6 months but I have had it go over 1 year.
- If US Customs requires a "formal" entry add about $200 to the cost.
- My experience has been there are a million ways for this to cost more than you expect, if you are importing "cheap" guns (costing less than a couple hundred a piece) I always try and go for a 20-30 gun min. shipment. That way if/when something gets more expensive than planned you have more to prorate the cost over.
- Non-military C&R guns can be imported directly by the C&R holder.
- The Form 6 is available on-line at the ATF website.
- I use a customs broker and do formal entries, could I save some on small shipments trying to do a informal entry? Maybe but you might have 2-3 trips to the airport and waste hours of your time trying to do a informal entry on your own. Every port of entry does and treats things a little differently.
- Antiques - plan on being able to "prove" to Customs they are pre 1899 or be prepared to loose them.



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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
BangBang, thanks for the welcome.

There are some here who will attempt to answer but this is an internet bulletin board/chat forum and you should never depend on any advice you get from strangers which may effect you legally.
Thanks, I'll check with a local gun shop and check with them.

Ask a gun shop (FFL) near where you live what you need to do to legally bring the guns home. That is the best advice I would give. You could ask your local police but as been demonstrated before police don't always know the laws concerning guns
I noticed that--it took nearly an hour to get a "maybe..." kind of answer from the local police station about how old I needed to be to buy a handgun. Kinda ridiculous--it shows that we need some serious reviews to our legal system, but I don't know alot of people who could be trusted with that.

All of that being said.... what is the handgun in the picture?
I'm not sure--there weren't any distinctive markings I remember, not even the caliber. It did have a folding trigger, and I think I remember something about it being a European make.

32 Magnum,

If you attempt to "smuggle" them across the boarder and are caught you are looking at hefty jail time and large fines - on either side of the boarder. You may have to find an importer here in the US that will accept shipment and then ship to a dealer in your area. Check into it before you make a costly mistake.
I'm driving up there this Christmas, so I'm looking for a way to just drive them back (legally of course). The one way I could think of it is transfer the title to my name at a dealer in canada, and then work out import paperwork, and drive it back... I don't really know if any of that is possible--I tried looking up the laws online and it was extremely confusing.

The #1 is an antique.
The #'s 3 & 4 are "sporterized" military surplus firearms.
None of these three will sell for more than $350 US.
I'm more interested in them for historical/family value, as they've been in my family for a few generations.

Thanks all!

EDIT
: I just read through 32 Magnum's post in more detail, and I think that unless the FFL dealer near me can suggest a relatively cheap/easy way to ship them, I will probably have to either give up or try again later, once I've had a couple months to arrange things before the trip.
 

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Sumfer,
I wasn't "cutting down" the firearms - I would gladly have any or all of them in my collection - I was merely trying to help you realize the limitations on boarder crossing with firearms. It is actually easier to "import" high-end sporting long guns into the US than it is to bring in low-end pieces. The restrictions were written to cut down on the importation of inexpensive guns that would appeal to the common masses. Yep, your government doesn't trust the common masses with firearms that they can afford.
Good luck.
Suggestion - go to a firearms purveyor while you are in Canada and get the word straight from the horse's mouth.
 
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Ok. Thanks for that clarification, I guess that explains why the laws are difficult and confusing... I guess the government had to do something with all of that tax money laying around :)

I'll try and find someone to talk to about it while I'm there.
 

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Welcome to the forum from New Mexico.
Thanks for the great introduction and asking questions regarding transporting firearms from Canada to the USA. We all learn when issues such as this are brought up.:thumbsup:
 
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