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Harley Dude
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My other thread about shooting into the air raised this point.

What is the answer? I do see all the video these days about everyone running from the police when their cars are stopped or on the street when they are fingered.

Its takes a lot of wind and auto resources to run down these folks, then the liberals all think the police should not endanger the public by chasing them at high speeds through the streets. I sometimes wonder who we are protecting nowadays?

When I was a young adult you never ran from the police. You knew their was a risk of being shot. today all the druggies run like rabbits.

What are the rules? Can you shoot a dangerous felon while they are running?
 
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SatanzBountyHunter I think got it in terms of legal aspect of it.

It makes sense, if there's some discretion, after all, it's very easy to make a mistake. Now then, as for high speed chases -- for the most part they are chasing drug runners and car thieves. I don't think it's justified to endanger public for a stolen car or some weed.

When you were young, you didn't have DEA, and yes, people ran from police -- NASCAR comes to mind.
 

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Nope, this is not a 3rd world country and you can't shoot at someone unless they're a direct threat to your life.

All I can say is the whole high speed chase thing is really a double edged sword when it comes to justifiability and liability. I can understand a cop chasing a felon who's just murdered someone, but why on Earth do cops engage in high speed chases with someone who's just got expired tags or is speeding. It's just not worth it IMO. On one hand you got people on the Right who say "well if he wasn't running then he wouldn't be chased." Then you got people on the Left who say "well if he wasn't being chased he wouldn't be running.

The way I see it is that LEOs are suppose to be protecting us Civilians and NOT putting our lives in danger on the road during high speed chases. LEOs need to use proper judgment and do the right thing in situations like that. Is a speeding citation really worth putting everyone's lives on the road in danger?
 
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sig232 said:
My other thread about shooting into the air raised this point.

What is the answer?
Can you shoot a dangerous felon while they are running?
Hmmm, I guess it really depends on how good of a shot your are.... -I
 

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Right Wing Zealot
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The way I see it is that LEOs are suppose to be protecting us Civilians and NOT putting our lives in danger on the road during high speed chases. LEOs need to use proper judgment and do the right thing in situations like that. Is a speeding citation really worth putting everyone's lives on the road in danger?
I think it depends on what kind of society you want to live in. If everyone who doesn't want to be pulled over, for whatever reason, and just wants to floor it so that they can get out of a ticket or arrest and the police won't chase them, then I estimate that it will take about a month for everyone to start doing it. After all, speeding is not a big deal, so we should all drive 100mph...especially since cops shouldn't chase speeders. That way, everyone will be much safer.

I forgot to mention all those drunk people out on the roads...let them be, unless of course they want to voluntarily pull over and be arrested. If they know they can speed off, why not? ...better than spending time in jail. That should also keep the roads safe.

I know I am being sarcastic, but people need to realize that if criminals know there is no consequence for not complying with authority, why do it? If you are not going to get shot while fleeing from savagely raping a woman, or get your car spun off the road during a high speed chase....then why would anyone surrender?

I have had several people try to elude me during a high speed pursuit...we caught them all. Some run because they have marijuana in the car, some run because they have felony warrants for child molesting. The officer doesn't know why they are running until they catch them. But once you tolerate it, they will do it.
 

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Right Wing Zealot
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The law is pretty clear about when Law Enforcement can shoot them...but it is certainly hazy about a civilian doing it. I think that Mr. Horn's case will probably provide a little insight about that.

Here's a hypothetical I hope none of us have to deal with, but be honest about it:

Suppose you came home to find someone had murdered your family and started running away when they saw you enter the premises and pull a weapon....would you shoot that fleeing felon, or wait for the police investigators to 'do their job' and apprehend the suspect (maybe).

I am more than sure y'all know my answer to that question. What's yours?

Now ask yourself whether a judge or senator (that makes all these cheesey pro-criminal laws) didn't have US Marshal's or Secret Service protecting their family...think the laws would change?
 

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Harley Dude
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14,651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
SatanzBountyHunter said:
The way I see it is that LEOs are suppose to be protecting us Civilians and NOT putting our lives in danger on the road during high speed chases. LEOs need to use proper judgment and do the right thing in situations like that. Is a speeding citation really worth putting everyone's lives on the road in danger?
I think it depends on what kind of society you want to live in. If everyone who doesn't want to be pulled over, for whatever reason, and just wants to floor it so that they can get out of a ticket or arrest and the police won't chase them, then I estimate that it will take about a month for everyone to start doing it. After all, speeding is not a big deal, so we should all drive 100mph...especially since cops shouldn't chase speeders. That way, everyone will be much safer.

I forgot to mention all those drunk people out on the roads...let them be, unless of course they want to voluntarily pull over and be arrested. If they know they can speed off, why not? ...better than spending time in jail. That should also keep the roads safe.

I know I am being sarcastic, but people need to realize that if criminals know there is no consequence for not complying with authority, why do it? If you are not going to get shot while fleeing from savagely raping a woman, or get your car spun off the road during a high speed chase....then why would anyone surrender?

I have had several people try to elude me during a high speed pursuit...we caught them all. Some run because they have marijuana in the car, some run because they have felony warrants for child molesting. The officer doesn't know why they are running until they catch them. But once you tolerate it, they will do it.



And there you have it folks! There has to be consequences to your actions, I believe. Our feel good society does not want consequences and people don't want to be told "NO" you can't do that, especially liberals.

It is my opinion that you have to take the risk to teach society a lesson. Run and you will be caught and the repercussion will be severe! Thats the lesson that we all must learn. It is not worth it to run because the charges will be much greater than if we take our lumps when stopped.

Like the minorities that always run when stopped in the inner cities. It they were taught in school to stop, put up their hands, and shut their big mouths they would have much less of a jail sentence and not get beat up or shot. I know to do that why don't they know it?

Get in the LEO's face and cause a confrontation and guess what, you get your azz beat and a free stay in jail. Some folks are dumb as a rock.

It is important to respect the laws that regulate society otherwise you get chaos.
 
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I can't put my finger on that last rant, but something is just horribly wrong with it. I think the desire to weight the authority on EVERYTHING in a citizen's life, and instead of teaching responsibility -- teaching fear. Great society you want to live in.
 

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Premium Member
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Personal defense can be a dangerous and expensive decision to make, even in "friendlier" states, but if you're in one of those "must cower" states, it's absurd. Worse yet, do some looking around at case law in Canada and Great Britain. GB will even reward you for a legit shoot on a BG-in-progress with criminal charges against you, the defender, in addition to the likelihood of a very expensive civil action.

Save yourself from a thug -- pay the price. Yup, that's JUSTICE!
 
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You can shoot a fleeing felon, when the felon is an Immenate threat to society. Such as an axe murderer running from the scene of a crime.
At least in Oklahoma. In liberal state all you can do is yell their rights to them.
 
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In Texas we have "The Sundown Law" in which if you catch somebody stealing YOUR property ON your property you can plug him EVEN IF he's running away. Don't know if I'd do it but on the other hand if I had of caught them scum that stole my welding machine a couple of weeks ago and they were driving off I think I might have. -I :--- -I :---
 

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I hope some of y'all spend the time to actually check to see if what you THINK is true, is ACTUALLY true. It could get very, very expensive if you happened to be mistaken. Expensive in money and freedom.
 

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Harley Dude
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
gunrnr said:
Personal defense can be a dangerous and expensive decision to make, even in "friendlier" states, but if you're in one of those "must cower" states, it's absurd. Worse yet, do some looking around at case law in Canada and Great Britain. GB will even reward you for a legit shoot on a BG-in-progress with criminal charges against you, the defender, in addition to the likelihood of a very expensive civil action.

Save yourself from a thug -- pay the price. Yup, that's JUSTICE!

And that appears to be the natural progression of all Democratic societies.
 

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Maser said:
Nope, this is not a 3rd world country and you can't shoot at someone unless they're a direct threat to your life.

All I can say is the whole high speed chase thing is really a double edged sword when it comes to justifiability and liability. I can understand a cop chasing a felon who's just murdered someone, but why on Earth do cops engage in high speed chases with someone who's just got expired tags or is speeding. It's just not worth it IMO. On one hand you got people on the Right who say "well if he wasn't running then he wouldn't be chased." Then you got people on the Left who say "well if he wasn't being chased he wouldn't be running.

The way I see it is that LEOs are suppose to be protecting us Civilians and NOT putting our lives in danger on the road during high speed chases. LEOs need to use proper judgment and do the right thing in situations like that. Is a speeding citation really worth putting everyone's lives on the road in danger?
How do you determine if they just shot someone? Just committed a murder? rape? You don't. Some of the best felony arrests have started with a simple traffic stop. Timothy McVeigh is one that comes to mind.

Do yourself a favor, try and get a ride along with your local police department. They won't take you on any high speed runs but they will give you a taste. Most police don't want a high speed chase anymore than anyone else.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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Can You Shoot A Fleeing Felon?

The key word here is not "Felon". It is "Fleeing".
 

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standerson said:
Do yourself a favor, try and get a ride along with your local police department. They won't take you on any high speed runs but they will give you a taste. Most police don't want a high speed chase anymore than anyone else.

Don't need to. Part of my diversion programs when I was released from Juvenile Hall involved plenty of ride alongs. Been there done that. No need to repeat. :i:
 

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Harley Dude
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Popeye said:
Can You Shoot A Fleeing Felon?

The key word here is not "Felon". It is "Fleeing".
And the big trick is telling the difference. Hummmm..........a big tatoo on their forehead might be in order. ;)
 

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here in Missouri you cannot shoot someone over property, period...however, if you're in someone's garage at 2am, it's gonna be up to you to prove you were just stealing...the case will go in front of a jury and I can tell you from experience, a lot depends on who got shot and who did the shooting. If you have a criminal record, you'r eno good, and you get plugged by some housewife, the jury ain't gonna care too much.

i know of two cases where armed fleeing felons were killed by civilians and nothing happened...in fact they were applauded as heroes..
 
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I visited with my son this past weekend, a Federal Agent. His answer: Only if I have direct knowledge that this felon creates an imminent danger to society and will probably cause harm to innocents unless he is stopped.
He gave an example. A BG holds up a liquor store, he has a handgun but does not use it. There is no evidence that it is even loaded. If fleeing he should not be shot. Will be ruled a bad shoot.
Second example: BG excapes from jail by overpowering a guard, kills guard and takes his pistol. In this case shoot him in the back if he won't stop. Will be ruled a good shoot.
These are examples that LE's should live by. Civilians with CCP do not have as much lattitude as sworn officers.
His instinct tells him that, as a civilian, unless YOU are in imminent danger and have an opportunity to retreat, then do so.
 
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