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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I know that the semi auto pistol now rules for LE use. I love revolvers, but can see that semi's have the advantage because of ammo capcity. Is there any chance that revolvers can make a come back in the future? 7 round cylinders are a step in the right direction, but still not enough to compete. Just wondering if there are any other concepts for revolvers in the future to be able to compete with the higher capacity's of semi auto's.
 

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I thought about this the other day and I think it would be a good idea to do. A 357 magnum would be perfect. They are the police not some para military out-fit fitting to scare, threaten, and overcome the people. If they the need the extra fire power maybe they can have it as their back up pistol or it can be in the trunk with the other weapons. I really see no need for a cop to have over 40+ rounds (for just his duty pistol) and would stop the police from shooting suspect(s) 57+ times "by accident" or "they saw 'something' ". Heck seeing that most cops have "high horse" attitudes, maybe it might knock it down some...which wouldn't be a bad thing. They have stun guns now and, it sounds like now-a-days, they use them more than their pistols.
 
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most depts. are way behind the criminals in new and nice weaponry. You sometimes have to wait for drug money or grants to pay the costs for new guns and other equiptment. It was nice to go from 18 to 34 to 46 rounds in 23 years. I really dont think that the amount of rounds makes your attitude one way or another , attitude is set by the person you are dealing with at that time.
But truely 6 rounds is enough, most shootouts are 2.3 rounds at about 6 feet
Thanks
R
 

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Old School.
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I don't think the revolver will ever be used for a service pistol again. The new light weight tupperware semi auto has a allful lot going for it when you factor in everything. Some of the new light weight revolvers may be used as a back up gun, but that's the end of it I think.

Will this end the production of the revolver? I don't think so as the sales of just S&W, & Ruger have doubled in the last few years. Not counting the Obammmy Boom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
A lot of good points, and I don't doubt that the higher capacity semi autos will continue to prevail although I believe that a competent six gunner can out shoot many semi auto shooters. Problem is that if they are both equally competent, then the semi auto shooter clearly has the advantage. While it's true that most street gunfights are settled at close range with 2 to 3 shots, the odds are that you will never get in a gun battle, so why carry at all if that's the case. I agree with being prepared for the worst scenario is the wiser course of action. LE has learned this the hard way in a major Florida bank robbery involving feds, and in the famous North Hollywood shootout. As far as cops having too many rounds, I disagree that they should be limited because they are an important part of our homeland security objectives, and need to deal with well armed criminals and terrorists. As far as their attitude, that's a different story. I think it's fair to say that the cops have good and bad like any other group or profession, but how they're armed should not become personal. If police were to be armed less, the public wouldn't be getting their moneys worth, and it would not be fair to the officer. I'm just a revolver fan and was hoping that technology could bring back the wheel gun, but I realize that it's probably a fading classic of law enforcement. I think in future history books, the cops of the mid 1900's that carried DA revolvers will be like the classic lawmen of the mid to late 1800's, and early 1900's, who carried SA revolvers. I'm just going to miss em, especially as more plastic continues to appear in the holsters of modern lawman. I guess I'm just getting older because I think that a leather basket weave Sam Brown belt with a Model 19, or other similar DA wheel gun is a real classic.
 

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They'll bring back revolvers about the same time as they get rid of no-knock warrants.
 

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I was in Washington D.C. last year on a sightseeing trip and I saw a lot of revolvers on the belts of police officers. There are lots of different LE agencies patrolling around (ie. DCPD, Special Police, Nat. park rangers, Secret Service, FBI) but mostly the wheel gun carriers were at guard type posts, at doors of attractions. Young, old, men, and women alike had them. There didn't seem to be any trend as to who was carrying one.

Maybe with all the "gun control" there, the criminals don't even have guns. Therefore the LEOs don't really need all that much firepower.
 

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My grandfather joined the Dade County Sheriff's Dept. in 1948 about 4 years after he moved to Miami. His first gun was a .38spl S&W short barrel, they made him a detective because he wore a suit. :biggrin5: At any rate he later got a 5" barreled S&W .357 mag. that I learned to shoot with as a kid. He died a few years after he retired in the '80 leaving me the .357 and my brother the .38. Over all of those years neither gun had many problems and I later had the .357 re-blued and a new firing pin. I guess these two guns has had several thousands of round each shot through them over the years. I recently gave it to my oldest son and my 3 sons learned to shot with it from the get go as they where growing up. I've also owned several Ruger's and Colt revolvers in various calibers. Now I'm down to two guns both semi auto pistols a Phoenix Arms HP22a (10 shot mag) and a Armscor Tanfoglio MAPP1 MS 9mm (16+1 shot mag) as my personal carry weapon. My favorite gun to shot was a Colt 45 single action peace maker and it now is with my second oldest son. I don't see revolvers coming back for police work but by the same token they are hear to stay as long as weapons use bullets that is.
 

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Ancient Gaseous Emanation
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I was in Washington D.C. last year on a sightseeing trip and I saw a lot of revolvers on the belts of police officers. There are lots of different LE agencies patrolling around (ie. DCPD, Special Police, Nat. park rangers, Secret Service, FBI) but mostly the wheel gun carriers were at guard type posts, at doors of attractions. Young, old, men, and women alike had them. There didn't seem to be any trend as to who was carrying one.

Maybe with all the "gun control" there, the criminals don't even have guns. Therefore the LEOs don't really need all that much firepower.
Federal armed security guards (not police) are issued revolvers chambered in .38 Special. Its a matter of economics and training.
 

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I carried a revolver from 1978 until my department forced me into an auto in '93. I would have stuck with my 686 til retirement if I could have. We had Glocks which are fine but I'm a revolver person.
 

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Galactic Effectuator
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No revolvers as long as...

Managers who don't know up from down decide what gun to carry.

Seriously, the decision about departmental sidearms are typically made by someone high in the firearms training division. That someone was promoted on the basis of being a stout and staunch supporter of management, not competence with firearms.

I work with officers - including range staff - who haven't ever handled a firearm other than what was issued to them. They are reasonably competent with those weapons (by the standards of the department) but that's as far as it goes.

Departments are getting progressively more squeamish about allowing officer choice in selecting a sidearm. (If you work for a department that allows you to carry what you choose, good for you!) Departments seek to cover their liabilities, real or imagined, and fear a non-department issued sidearm is an invitation to a lawsuit.

Individuals will opt to carry large capacity autopistols as long as they plan on missing a lot.

Rant over, he said, putting his soap box back under the desk.
 

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I accept what you say Archie, but it is also true that bureaucrats are all obsessed with increasing their budgets, and new toys are an easy way to spend. Then the political PR was behind a cry of "We were outgunned by the offenders" when first they all moved to autopistols. I don't ever see them going back to what is considered to be obsolete technology. The next thing will be the latest technology, the way they all tumbled to the Glock.

That's why I believe that if LE ever moves to a revolver again, it might be something new and high tech and expensive, like this:



 

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Galactic Effectuator
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Brewster, you have a point. However, a big reason many, many departments went to Glocks was the dirty dog cheap prices Glock offered when bought in bulk. When Glocks were first imported, they cost just over $100 a piece from the factory.

Lord have mercy! How much does that Rhino weigh?
 

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Read all about 'em. They actually are interesting technology, with the recoil pushing into the palm. Little or no flip, but I imagine that will cost some people some teeth until they get used to full power loads.

Your other point? There are always budget conflicts, and the Glock surely got so popular in part due to their cost, (they were still adopted while every cop had a perfectly good firearm already) but the truth is that government is absolutely awash in money, and the only thing they ever cut, as a threat to the voters who resist new taxes, is teachers, fire, and LE personnel. But then the crisis is over, and they go back to their spending ways.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
When I retired in 2003 there were still some NYC Police Officers carrying 38 cal revolvers by choice. The older guys were allowed to keep their 38's. but after some point in the early or mid 90's all the new hires had to go with one of three semi auto's chambered in 9MM; the Glock, the S&W 5946, and I think the other was a Sig. The Glock was by far the most popular, followed by the Smith and then very few Sigs. That probably worked out like that because NYC Officers payed for their own duty guns and affordability was obviously the dominating factor here. The only problem with this is that now you have at least 4 different handguns out there and serious interchangeability issues on ammo and mags. The NYPD goes by past events and shooting records and they probably couldn't find enough evidence to support that interchangeability is a significant issue. My problem with that is that they're not looking into future possibilities, and the lesson may come at the cost of life or serious injury. They didn't want to advance to hi cap semi auto's until an officer paid with his life reloading a revolver in an extended shootout against a shooter with higher capacity semi auto. This should not reflect on the departments firearm experts who are well aware of the dangers and the need to upgrade, but rather the higher up bureaucrats in Police Plaza and City Hall that are too shaky to sign off on these matters in advance when they should. My thinking is that they should probably stick with the semi auto hi cap 9's but have them all be the same so interchangeability of ammo and mags would be possible. I'd go a step further and issue an assault carbine chambered for the same pistol cartridge and have interchangeable mags that could be used in the pistol or the assault carbine. I know the 40 is a better LE round but in NYC there are a lot of officers that would not be able to handle the 40 proficiently. I think smaller PD's would be better of going with something bigger than 9's whenever it would be practical.
 

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Bill Jordan, who i met years ago, was by far the best athourity on weapons for the police officer. in his book, no second place winner, he makes it very clear, what works, what doesnt. He knew about automatics too. todays popular culture has created a condition that has the average traffic cop loaded down with enough rounds and weapons to take on a small mob. first it was a couple spare mags for the .45, now its 4 mags for a hi cap, a taser, an asp, cuffs, sheesh he has a bigger load than batman. perhaps in a few inner city area's an officer might need that much firepower, even there, i doubt it. first, trying to up the firepower, so an officer can stay in an engagement longer with a handgun is so tactally flawed i wont comment on it. A. he can retreat. B. he has a radio, he can get more firepower, should he need it, from a couple more units, to a whole swat team, to the national guard. while i was in Florida, i was asked once thru some detectives i knew, to coach them on their upcoming quals. they carried glock 17's with 17 round magazines, and 2 spare magazines, +1 in the pipe, 52 total rounds. They had to score 40 points, on a sil target at 7 meters, the center ring 10 pts, 9,8 and so on, if they missed the entire sil, but hit the white background, that still counted 1 point. it took me 3 days of classroom and range work, to get 20 officers, to qualify. 4 rounds, in the 10 ring, 40 points,,done, missing the entire sil 40 times but hitting the background, 40 points, done. most used up the mag in their weapon and one spare, 34 rounds or so. some, needed all 52 rounds to squeak by. perhaps more time should be spent on target practice, actually hitting what they are aiming at, instead of just, upping the ammo load.
 

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Galactic Effectuator
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My final comment on the subject.

In brief, the incidents wherein officers armed with revolvers lost their lives - or the engagement - always falls to the officer failing to connect with the offender. Not a firepower problem, but an accuracy problem. Pre-officer people don't grow up shooting like happened a mere forty years ago, and simply don't have the skills required to hit a target, as offered by gun guru. I saw the same thing in my career. But departments have more money to buy larger capacity weapons then to train new and extant officers. The result is that our society at large has decided to have officers fire more shots in panic.

I find it a serious disservice to the officers and the public at large.
 
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