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Discussion Starter #1
My book did not have 9mm CPRN in it for Bullseye. I did find a recipe on the Alliant site.

121593


The Lee manual agrees with Alliant on the max load for JHP at 4.7 with a min of 4.1.

Given this information, I loaded 3 CPRN Berry’s @ 4.6gr judging by the 0.6gr range for JHP, I’m going to guess the min load for copper plated @4.5 and 5.1gr max, so these are on the low side.

4.6gr from a 5” 1911

Round 1 - 1145 FPS
Round 2 - 1187 FPS
Round 3 - 1171 FPS

I’m guessing that the extra 1” of barrel is why I’m knocking on the door of the max load velocities. I like to keep the velocity either just below the sound barrier or plenty above it due to the transonic barrier. I’m going to load up some more and test from a couple different guns.
 

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IIRC, as long as you stay under about 1300fps you should be ok. I don't have my book handy but IIRC I was using 4.7grn of Bullseye on Extreme CP 115 grn bullets.
I'll check later to be sure.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Complete results, Bullseye 9mm 115 gr

4.6gr 5” barrel
1145
1187
1171

4.8gr 5” barrel
1169
1172
1224 (pressure spike?)

4.6gr 3” barrel
Error
1080
1084

4.8gr 3” barrel
1096
1123
Error

I was using 4.7grn of Bullseye on Extreme CP 115 grn bullets
4.7 would keep the 3” barrels from the 1126 FPS barrier but sit the 3.675” EZ right on top of it. I honestly don’t see a way around it. No matter which way I go, I’m going to land on it. I want to say 4.9gr will land the 3” right on top of it.

Looks like I’m going to have to go out back and see how straight they shoot. With the way this powder measured with the .40 S&W +/- 0.2gr, I don’t want to load higher than 4.9. The S&W 9mm EZ is the one I worry about over pressuring.

Currently, I have the following 9mm

Springfield XD 3”
Springfield XDE 3.3”
S&W 3.675” EZ
Remington R51 9mm +P 3.4”
Citadel 1911 5”
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Let me explain my reasoning. I routinely shoot 50 - 65 yards and the occasional 85 yards with pistols. It’s just a challenge I like. 1100-1150 is pretty much a no zone. A bullet traveling 1150 will spend its entire flight in that transonic zone. 9mm will drop ~60-70 FPS at 50 yards. 1100 and under, no disruption to stability. I need to hit about 1225 FPS for a supersonic round to stay out of that zone at 50 yards. That last 20-30ft at 60-65 yards won’t do much to the flight path.

At 85, I need to bump it to about 1275 FPS, but if I have accurate bullets at 50, I’m happy. The fatter and heavier the bullet, the less it matters. A 180gr .40 will be less effected. A 240gr .44 magnum even less. So I’ll have to test them.
 

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Live Free
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My book did not have 9mm CPRN in it for Bullseye. I did find a recipe on the Alliant site.

View attachment 121593

The Lee manual agrees with Alliant on the max load for JHP at 4.7 with a min of 4.1.

Given this information, I loaded 3 CPRN Berry’s @ 4.6gr judging by the 0.6gr range for JHP, I’m going to guess the min load for copper plated @4.5 and 5.1gr max, so these are on the low side.

4.6gr from a 5” 1911

Round 1 - 1145 FPS
Round 2 - 1187 FPS
Round 3 - 1171 FPS

I’m guessing that the extra 1” of barrel is why I’m knocking on the door of the max load velocities. I like to keep the velocity either just below the sound barrier or plenty above it due to the transonic barrier. I’m going to load up some more and test from a couple different guns.
I am unsure as to why you guess what data to use with Berry’s 115 grain. They specifically point out there is data published from some powder manufacturers or you can use any load manual data for 115 grain lead or jacketed. But they never suggest exceeding those loads. I am not saying you cannot do that, but questioning why you think data for Berry’s plated should be higher than the data for those Speer Gold Dots?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am unsure as to why you guess what data to use with Berry’s 115 grain. They specifically point out there is data published from some powder manufacturers or you can use any load manual data for 115 grain lead or jacketed. But they never suggest exceeding those loads. I am not saying you cannot do that, but questioning why you think data for Berry’s plated should be higher than the data for those Speer Gold Dots?
Because the powder manufacturer load data specific to Speer copper plate round nose bullets is higher.
 

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Oh duh! I was reading where you said you guessed, but that was for a minimum for the chart data if I had read all the way down...🥴. Maybe I will take a nap and start over today...
 

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Now that I have stopped laughing at myself, just a note for you; the Berry’s bullets are.356 whereas the Speer CPRN bullets that the data references are .355. Just a point of info...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good to know. I often use XTP data for loads. Usually, when I see copper plated data, it marginally higher charge like we see above. I generally don’t sweat the higher end FMJ or XTP charges if the CP data is unavailable. I don’t think I’ve come across where it’s less for CP yet (though, it doesn’t mean I won’t). Unfortunately, the info you just gave me isn’t present in the manual, thanks for that.

I try to not use lead cast data because many times, the charge is even higher than CP, unless bullet integrity is an issue (thinking mag speeds). It would seem that they have less resistance than CP.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Tried some TiteGroup at 4gr, same 115gr CPRN in an attempt to get them both functional below the sound barrier.

3” Springfield

Round 1 - 252
Round 2 - 641
Round 3 - 656

5” 1911

Round 1 - 696
Round 2 - 656
Round 3 - 300

Unfortunately, my chronograph is CLEARLY LYING there’s no way those guns functioned at 252 and 300 FPS. They did, however, cycle and lock open so something isn’t right with the chrono. Going to charge it up and try again later.

My expectations are between 1,000 and 1,125
 

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AZHerper
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My book did not have 9mm CPRN in it for Bullseye. I did find a recipe on the Alliant site.

View attachment 121593

The Lee manual agrees with Alliant on the max load for JHP at 4.7 with a min of 4.1.

Given this information, I loaded 3 CPRN Berry’s @ 4.6gr judging by the 0.6gr range for JHP, I’m going to guess the min load for copper plated @4.5 and 5.1gr max, so these are on the low side.

4.6gr from a 5” 1911

Round 1 - 1145 FPS
Round 2 - 1187 FPS
Round 3 - 1171 FPS

I’m guessing that the extra 1” of barrel is why I’m knocking on the door of the max load velocities. I like to keep the velocity either just below the sound barrier or plenty above it due to the transonic barrier. I’m going to load up some more and test from a couple different guns.
I like what you had to say and you always express yourself well but; I don't like Bullseye. The max listed load is 5.1 grains which is less than 40% of 9mm case capacity (13.3 gr H20). This leaves plenty of room for a double charge. Myself, I always avoided loads with powders that produced less than 50% of case capacity and I actually preferred much more (70% or more). It's a little more expensive but double charges spill over. Anyway, maybe that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Retest with the 4.0gr TiteGroup

3” Springfield

Round 1 - 982
Round 2 - 1015
Round 3 - 1004

5” 1911

Round 1 - 1052
Round 2 - 1079
Round 3 - 1078

With 4.2gr TiteGroup - 5” 1911

Round 1 - 1085
Round 2 - 1153
Round 3 - 1144

I’m going to go at these with 4.1gr. Should keep my 5” 1911 below the 1126 FPS sound barrier.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I like what you had to say and you always express yourself well but; I don't like Bullseye. The max listed load is 5.1 grains which is less than 40% of 9mm case capacity (13.3 gr H20). This leaves plenty of room for a double charge. Myself, I always avoided loads with powders that produced less than 50% of case capacity and I actually preferred much more (70% or more). It's a little more expensive but double charges spill over. Anyway, maybe that's just me.
Very good point. The issue I have is powder availability. I have been trying to take extra precautions around Bullseye and TiteGroup because of your very concerns. My preference as I’ve said in the past is Unique for everything south of a magnum because it is hard to double charge and it shines in various barrel lengths.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Take note, I updated the post title to reflect TiteGroup’s inclusion in this discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Would one of you share a TiteGroup 115gr copper plated bullet recipe for 9mm? I looked again in my book and this is there is an XTP load in there that’s 4.5gr - 4.8gr. The lead bullet is 3.9gr - 4.3gr (which is what I based this load on) It functions but it’s 1/2gr lower than the min for XTP.

Ive tried the Hodgdon sight several times, it just keeps looping back to the shop instead of the load data.

If the min -max load is closer to XTP, that changes everything.
 

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I almost forgot about this thread.
Here is some load data I have. All below 1300fps so you should be good.
With Bullseye, I used 4.5gr in 5" and 3.5" barrels. Shoots fine in both. I did not chronograph them though.
This data is from loadbooks.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I almost forgot about this thread.
Here is some load data I have. All below 1300fps so you should be good.
With Bullseye, I used 4.5gr in 5" and 3.5" barrels. Shoots fine in both. I did not chronograph them though.
This data is from loadbooks.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Thanks. Looks like the accuracy load for the jacketed bullets at the bottom of that first page is close to what I’m charging them at. Says 4.2, I’m charging at 4.1. Both of which are below min for jacketed bullets in my book. The difference between the jacketed and plated would probably put the velocity at the same place.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
@jrbfishn Thanks again, I think I have enough information from what you just posted to confirm what I’m running is a good load.
 

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Should be. I am running plated bullets in my reloads from Extreme. I have been using Power Pistol and Bullseye. I haven't seen any problems yet. I have used Titegroup in .45 Colt but not in 9mm.


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Discussion Starter #20
I loaded 600 today and realized I had 2,200 under my desk I didn’t have room for to begin with.
 
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