[jellis359]

this to me would seem like the perfect rifle. would this be a good gun with the gritty ruggedness of the ak mud gun but with the general ballistics of an ar 15.
the things that have been keeping me from going and building my own ar 15 is the fact that it requires a lot more TLC. ive heard they like to run wet on lube and oil where an ak can run even if it has been neglected on cleaning.
the thing thats been keeping me from buying an ak is the weight of the rifle and its ammunition and the ballistics where ive heard its general (meaning for a shooter who isnt exactly masterful) range with a 7.62x39 is about 200 yards.
ive heard the .223/5.56 has a much better range. so wouldnt an ak mud gun chambered in .223/5.56 be a nitty gritty workhorse with the general range of an ar 15.
im a novice in firearms. i have fired an ar 15 and i love the platform and im trying to purchase my first rifle. key points: i like the lighter weight of the ar-15 and its potential range but the ruggedness and ability of an ak to be abused a little is a very appealing factor to me as well. i was looking at the saiga .223.
i know this is a debate that people get very impassioned about and thats its probably been overdone already as it is. just looking for some impartial advice.

i was originally going to build an ar-15 with a .22lr upper and move to 5.56 later, but the maintenance factor that an ar-15 requires has been keeping me from "pulling the trigger" on the project. how often is it absolutely critical to strip and clean an ar-15? call me an idiot or whatever you like just please shed some truth on my concerns. thank you folks!

 

[xXSARGEXx]

Could always go with the SIG 556. It was described to me as an improved AK upper on an AR lower. And it's chambered for the 5.56 NATO. Never handled one myself, but I've heard nothing but good things about them, I'm sure someone will come around eventually that can tell you more about it.

 

[Rivervalley0311]

I believe your over thinking the whole Ar15 vs the Ak.The AR is every bit as reliable as the AK with better accuracy imo.

 

[bigweatherby]

You need to ask yourself this too, If you spend hundreds of dollars on a rifle, just how muddy and unmaintained are you going to let it get?

 

[Fixit]

Could always go with the SIG 556. It was described to me as an improved AK upper on an AR lower. And it's chambered for the 5.56 NATO. Never handled one myself, but I've heard nothing but good things about them, I'm sure someone will come around eventually that can tell you more about it.

I own a Sig 556 and think it is a great gun. If your worried about the weight of an AK47 though you may want to stay clear as the Sig 556 and an average ak47 are very close to the same weight. (8 pounds give or take with different models ). The 556 is very reliable and accurate but I know plenty of people who own AR-15's that are every bit as reliable and accurate.

 

[Popeye]

Originally Posted by xXSARGEXx

Could always go with the SIG 556. It was described to me as an improved AK upper on an AR lower. And it's chambered for the 5.56 NATO. Never handled one myself, but I've heard nothing but good things about them, I'm sure someone will come around eventually that can tell you more about it.

I own a Sig 556 and think it is a great gun. If your worried about the weight of an AK47 though you may want to stay clear as the Sig 556 and an average ak47 are very close to the same weight. (8 pounds give or take with different models ). The 556 is very reliable and accurate but I know plenty of people who own AR-15's that are every bit as reliable and accurate.

Ditto.

 

[horselips]

I own a Saiga Carbine. It is basically a Kalashnikov action fitted with a traditional stock. Handles like a slightly heavier M1 Carbine and chambered in 5.56x45 or if you prefer, .223. Unlike some AR15s, my Saiga is utterly insensitive to the ammunition I feed it, functioning flawlessly with steel cases, brass cases, whatever. At 100 yards, with iron sights and doing my part, I can get 2-3 inch groups with both 55 and 62 grain ammo. Amazing with a 1 in 10" twist barrel. With a scope, I can cut that in half. With my advancing age and declining eyesight, that's good enough for me. I swapped out the factory top cover with a UTG 5th Generation Tri-Rail top cover and mounted a 3-9 scope, tactical flashlight and red laser sight. Looks positively Klingon. I love it. it came with one 10 round magazine, When money permits, I will eventually add a 30 rounder, and a double-drum C-mag clone.


Nothing against AR rifles at all, in fact over the ages past I've owned 4 of them. All fine weapons. But even entry-level AR s cost around $600 on the Internet after shipping and FFL transfer fees, and they cost even more than that in all my local gun shops. I paid just $299 for my Saiga from J&G Sales a few years ago, and I couldn't be happier with the performance and value of this weapon. Try getting any AR, Sig, or anything else for that kind of money. Even twice that. Three times that...

 

[AdamSmith]

The AK is not a very accurate platform. It is cheap and easy to build. It is designed for close up military/paramilitary/insurgent tactics.
You can drop an AK in the mud and then pick it up and still fire it, as the gun shows on tv have demonstrated.
It is not a great platform to modify into 223 or 5.56.


The best modified 5.56 platform from the AR is the Ruger Mini 14. It's most practical modern application is for prison guards on walls and towers at state confinement facilities. It is also the ideal battle rifle design next to the M-14 itself. The only difference between the two is the caliber.


So what you want to do already exists -- just get a Ruger.

 

[AdamSmith]

I own a Saiga Carbine. It is basically a Kalashnikov action fitted with a traditional stock. Handles like a slightly heavier M1 Carbine and chambered in 5.56x45 or if you prefer, .223. Unlike some AR15s, my Saiga is utterly insensitive to the ammunition I feed it, functioning flawlessly with steel cases, brass cases, whatever. At 100 yards, with iron sights and doing my part, I can get 2-3 inch groups with both 55 and 62 grain ammo. Amazing with a 1 in 10" twist barrel. With a scope, I can cut that in half. With my advancing age and declining eyesight, that's good enough for me. I swapped out the factory top cover with a UTG 5th Generation Tri-Rail top cover and mounted a 3-9 scope, tactical flashlight and red laser sight. Looks positively Klingon. I love it. it came with one 10 round magazine, When money permits, I will eventually add a 30 rounder, and a double-drum C-mag clone.


Nothing against AR rifles at all, in fact over the ages past I've owned 4 of them. All fine weapons. But even entry-level AR s cost around $600 on the Internet after shipping and FFL transfer fees, and they cost even more than that in all my local gun shops. I paid just $299 for my Saiga from J&G Sales a few years ago, and I couldn't be happier with the performance and value of this weapon. Try getting any AR, Sig, or anything else for that kind of money. Even twice that. Three times that...

The Ruger Mini 14's are also not expensive - under $500 - compared with the AR's which now go for over $1000.

 

[AdamSmith]

I own a Sig 556 and think it is a great gun. If your worried about the weight of an AK47 though you may want to stay clear as the Sig 556 and an average ak47 are very close to the same weight. (8 pounds give or take with different models ). The 556 is very reliable and accurate but I know plenty of people who own AR-15's that are every bit as reliable and accurate.

I think it is pretty much true that anything Sig makes is going to be a great gun. Not a cheap gun, but a great gun.

 

[bigweatherby]

Where are you getting your Mini-14 prices Adam?

 

[AdamSmith]

You need to ask yourself this too, If you spend hundreds of dollars on a rifle, just how muddy and unmaintained are you going to let it get?

Not only that, but you need a timetable for when you think the zombies are going to attack you. So you can be ready.

 

[AdamSmith]

Where are you getting your Mini-14 prices Adam?

I have seen a couple for sale at our local gun shops.
Right now the Ruger's seem to be out of favor due to the extreme popularity of the AR's, therefore AR prices are skyrocketing just like in any bubble, and Ruger prices are plunging in response.

 

[bigweatherby]

If you can find a new one for under 5 bills, then get it. That is a fantastic price.

 

[AdamSmith]

this to me would seem like the perfect rifle. would this be a good gun with the gritty ruggedness of the ak mud gun but with the general ballistics of an ar 15.
the things that have been keeping me from going and building my own ar 15 is the fact that it requires a lot more TLC. ive heard they like to run wet on lube and oil where an ak can run even if it has been neglected on cleaning.
the thing thats been keeping me from buying an ak is the weight of the rifle and its ammunition and the ballistics where ive heard its general (meaning for a shooter who isnt exactly masterful) range with a 7.62x39 is about 200 yards.
ive heard the .223/5.56 has a much better range. so wouldnt an ak mud gun chambered in .223/5.56 be a nitty gritty workhorse with the general range of an ar 15.
im a novice in firearms. i have fired an ar 15 and i love the platform and im trying to purchase my first rifle. key points: i like the lighter weight of the ar-15 and its potential range but the ruggedness and ability of an ak to be abused a little is a very appealing factor to me as well. i was looking at the saiga .223.
i know this is a debate that people get very impassioned about and thats its probably been overdone already as it is. just looking for some impartial advice.

i was originally going to build an ar-15 with a .22lr upper and move to 5.56 later, but the maintenance factor that an ar-15 requires has been keeping me from "pulling the trigger" on the project. how often is it absolutely critical to strip and clean an ar-15? call me an idiot or whatever you like just please shed some truth on my concerns. thank you folks!

THE PERFECT RIFLE means different things to different people.
For horsemen, the perfect rifle is a lever action. Definitely not an AR or AK.
For hunters, REAL hunters, not guys pretending to be hunters, the perfect rifle is the old classic 1903 design in the bolt action, with a lot of debate about a scope AND iron sights, and loop mounts, so you can set the scope on 700+ yards and the iron sights on 600 or less.
For serious self defense, the ideal weapon is not even a rifle at all but a shotgun with 00-buck and slugs mixed.
Zombie guns are a far cry from "the perfect rifle." Not even close -- unles the zombie apocalypse dominates your entire though process.

 

[AdamSmith]

If you can find a new one for under 5 bills, then get it. That is a fantastic price.

When I move away from California in retirement (to Nevada or Colorado) then I will definitely think about another Mini-14. In the meantime, see my reply above about zombie guns.

 

[CMonster]

You can have my share of the AKs. Having fired more than a few in my time, I prefer other rifles these days.