National Gun Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's a couple H&R double barrel shotguns that you won't see very often because only a few thousand were made. Only made from 1909 to early 1920's. Small frame and small bore. These two date to around 1909 and 1912.


 
G

·
hey 32 magnum have you got any more information on these. the 28 ga. hammer gun loaded on my screen but the .44 cal. double rifle did not, only a bit. iwant to see this. do you have a model number? where did you get them? the shotgun appears to fluid steel not damascus. have you asked around on other forums for info on them. i'd like more info if you can provide it please. i can't find anything about them in gun digests gun values or brownells encyclopedia of moder firearms or the gun traders guide.i'll ask on another forum. come back thanks pblsyd
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
pblsyd:
I've got some info on these. I got both of them at on-line auctions. The side plates on the 44 cal were separate because the cross bolt was stripped - it cost me $800 and change. I had it fixed by a good shotgun smith for $67. The 28 ga. was as you see it, in v.good ++ condition and cost me $1005. There are not many around. I've been collecting H&R's for more years than I care to mention and I've only ever seen four of the small frame hammer guns. I bought these two, one was in pieces and still went for $750 and the other one has an old scope mounted on it and the owner wants $3000 for it. They both have "fluid" steel barrels. The info I have will be published next Spring in the first comprehensive and specific guide to H&R Firearms. There's not much out there right now on these, and a lot of other H&Rs.
Here's a couple more pics. just to whet your appetite.



 
G

·
these guns and all you show is great. the .44-40 was the forerunner to what we now know as the .410. i've got a couple of other guys who have quite a lot of info on H&R. apparently H&R in the old days would build just about anything to meet a customers specs, which is how a lot of their different styled items came to be. please stay in touch, i'll do the same as more info comes available. in the meantime if you need some beer money ,i'll gladdly take those two off your hands for a couple hundred bucks. LOL thanks pblsyd
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
pblsyd,
As I promised (on that other site), here's a couple pics of an H&R early 1880's Anson & Deeley double:



The Anson and Deeleys made by H&R are reputed to be the FIRST HAMMERLESS doubles made in the USofA. Previous hammerless SxS were all imported from England or Belgium, supposedly.

Here's a couple more detail shots of the Small Bore double in .44 CAL:


Notice that the top lever stays in the open position when piece is disassembled, for ease of remounting barrels - only top value modern doubles have that feature today.
As to needing beer money - well, if I keep coming across stuff like this, I'll need a lot more than beer money - LOL!
Enjoy the pics, and if you come up with any info on these up there in the frozen North, please let me know - never hurts to add to the data bank.
Thanks :-B-:
 
G

·
32 Magnum said:
Here's a couple H&R double barrel shotguns that you won't see very often because only a few thousand were made. Only made from 1909 to early 1920's. Small frame and small bore. These two date to around 1909 and 1912.


You have taste "32Magnum",no doubt bout that ;)
 
G

·
thanks 32mag. that is nice collection. the stamped lettering and numbers on the water table is really clear , and the forend plate looks very similar to an ithaca crass, about 1875 sxs. i have a 1903 ithaca lewis i'm working on right now, converting it to a functioning 28 ga. very very nice stuff you have! pblsyd
 
G

·
Very interesting, I have the same gun that I have trying to find info on for about eight years. I have taken it to three different gunsmiths and none of them could tell me exactly what it was supposed to shoot. One even tried to sell me .44 cal rifle bullets. I have actually shot quite a few rounds with it using CCI .44 spl/mag shotshells designed for use in a .44 cal revolver. Great to see an actual ad for the gun that no one seems to be able to find info on. Do you know exactly what book these photos came from? I would be very interested to know. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Jester,
I took the pictures of pieces in my collection, and added the captions as research notes. I saw your posting on the GPC/Numrich site, this morning. The research is being conducted for Bill Goforth (author of THE book on Iver Johnson firearms, 2nd Edition) who will publish, in Spring of 2008, the first book on H&R firearms. There is little to no information on many of the H&R firearms in any comprehensive format at this time. Much of what is included in the many guides is incomplete and/or incorrect. Bill's book will correct and expand upon the body of knowledge extant.
As to you shooting CCI shot shells in your piece - well, I'm not a ballistics expert, but I would be reluctant to do so. First, the gun is very very scarcely seen and commands a value of at least $800 in NRA good condition, you have a decent investment grade piece on your hands - you wouldn't want to throw that value away. Secondly, these guns were made between 1909 and circa 1921, when the metallurgy of the steels used was not as sound as today. The .44-40 shotshell cartridge and the XL "Gamegetter" cartridges were designed and produced with black powder and therefore are/were fairly low pressure cartridges. Probably on the order of something less than 10,000 psi. Modern .44 Spl cartridges operate above 20,000 psi. The math and probability of catastrophic failure are not in your favor. I have retired both of my double barrel hammer guns to display purposes for the above stated reasons. It's your call.
Here's a couple more detail pictures of the .44 cal.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,424 Posts
32 Magnum -- the metallurgy you talk of, are those bbls Damascus or just questionable steel?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks, Baldy.

gunrnr - the barrels on these are "fluid" steel - which I take to mean cast and forged billet machined to shape then bored. They are not "Damascus" or wrapped and forge welded - the "Anson & Deeley" has that type of barrel. Take a look at the following close-up pic. You can see the "twist" pattern in the barrel steel.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top