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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello ladies and gents.

Which is a better defensive round, the .45 ACP or .45 GAP?

I know the .45GAP has a slimmer profile allow for added grip comfort and more capacity.

How does it perform in terms of recoil? Any ideas?

How about for target shooting?
 

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Ruler of Ramnation
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In my opinion, unless you are independently wealthy, I'd stick with the 45 acp. If you really want something more....look into the 10mm.
 

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Pro Gun Advocate
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In my opinion, unless you are independently wealthy, I'd stick with the 45 acp. If you really want something more....look into the 10mm.
I agree.

I thought my .357 was a hand cannon until I shot a 10mm.

Damn powerful round.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So I take it the prices are high. Sigh.. oh well, can't go wrong with the legendary .45ACP.

BTW, isn't the 10MM overkill in terms of killing-power, recoil, and lack of ability to be concealed (concealability isn't a word :crazy:).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Ruler of Ramnation
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So I take it the prices are high. Sigh.. oh well, can't go wrong with the legendary .45ACP.

BTW, isn't the 10MM overkill in terms of killing-power, recoil, and lack of ability to be concealed (concealability isn't a word :crazy:).
The 45 GAP has in essence been mainly a law enforcement round for certain reasons that Glock decided to fill some sort of void. While available to the public in firearms and ammo, it doesn't seem to be widely employed, and ammo also seems rather limited. Granted, the 10mm is also not one of the more popular offerings to the public, but more so than the 45GAP. Just ask Ted Nugent about the 10mm. Since I am a Glock fan, I'll tell you the 10mm Glock pistols are the same size as the Glock 45acp offerings. G20/21 and G29/30 (which both of these 29/30 models are considered good concealable arms). You'll find several folks on the forums that love the G30 in 45acp for carry even over the G36 as the G30 has a ten round capacity compared to 6 rounds in the G36. The 10mm offerings have beefier recoil systems. GAP stands for Glock Automatic Pistol BTW...they created the cartridge. I don't know of any other firearm manufacturers that have taken up the venture of producing pistols in that caliber. That alone says something for that particular market IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
GAP stands for Glock Automatic Pistol BTW...they created the cartridge. I don't know of any other firearm manufacturers that have taken up the venture of producing pistols in that caliber. That alone says something for that particular market IMO.
Good point.
 

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Ruler of Ramnation
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I didn't know that. Learn something every day. If the 45GAP cartridge somehow caught on more with the civilian population (gun buyers in particular), there might be something to outweigh the costs involved in production.
 

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Someone said it fairly well last week, "The .45 GAP was created to fill a need that wasn't there". I agree, but then I feel the same about the .357 Sig.

Also, it is exactly the same diameter as an ACP and approx. 0.130" shorter, so there is no increase in capacity.
 

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Ruler of Ramnation
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I think the .357 SIG seems to be pretty popular though. 9mm bullet in a necked down 40cal casing and still available in pocket sized pistols. Indeed, the .357 SIG was a more useful endeavor in the big picture than the 45GAP. Personally, I've never shot nor wanted for either. I view Glock and SIG as my top two go-to pistols. However, I thing SIG trumped the Glock challenge, and even Glock offers their pistols in .357 SIG! What's popular sells, plain and simple, and I don't think it has much to do with marketing tactics, but the tried and true test of time and sales.
 

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You're spot-on, RR. We discussed the .357S a short while ago and I know it has its following. I'm also not criticizing its effectiveness. It's unlikely the Secret Service, sky marshals, Texas DPS and others would carry it, otherwise. My contention is simply that it doesn't do anything better than any calibers or configurations that were already out there. I'd say the same about several other calibers such as .480 Ruger, .444 Marlin and so on.

But you're right, it's always marketing and I am glad that they do it. Gives us choices and keeps the sport fresh. I can look at one of my vintage load manuals from the early 60s and compare it to my latest book, hot off the press. I don't think that there is any better example of the "stuff" that's been developed over the past 40 yrs.

Just don't ask Sig how much ammo costs for his .356 TSW!
 

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I think the 45 GAP is one of those solutions looking for a problem. I also understand the concept of the GAP. I would think that if your hands are too small for a 45 ACP gripframe, then a smaller, less powerful cartridge might be what you need, not a smaller, equally powerful cartridge. I do know one person who owns one, I just kinda smiled and nodded, and acted interested when he was telling me about it.

I could be wrong on this one, but I bet you a box of ammo that 45 ACP will still be here in another hundred years, and 45 GAP will be long gone. I do realize similar thing have been said before about cartridges like 10 mm (one of my faves) and 357 SIG, but it seems to me that these two actually do have a niche.
 

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Old School.
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I am with Red-Rider over the .45GAP. I just think they missed the boat on that one. To me Glock is a fine pistol but this one just didn't make the grade. All manufactures have done it over the years so it's no big deal. :lol:
 

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Harley Dude
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I do think that now that Glock has a smaller frame for the 45 acp that the 45 GAP is done for. Just my opinion.

The 357 Sig on the other hand is a whole different ball game. It was designed to put the power of the 357 mag into an auto pistol. It gets real close too. Its a snappy round, and a pain in the azz to reload, but it will give you a high comfort level once you learn how to handle the recoil.

Its fast, damn fast, and has the ability, with the right bullet/load to hit very hard. Good all around firearm for defense. Woods, concealed carry and home defense. For home defense you have to use ammo that will reduce the penetration.

Now the big surprise to me was the range on this caliber. Like the 357 mag you can reach out there a long, long distance and hit it hard.

Its a must to use the factory ammo to insure reliability. Homegrown loads can pop loose and create high pressure situations. Not worth the risk for defense.

Another advantage is the bottleneck cartridge. You will not have failure to feed problems with the round. They feed like a champ.

I am impressed with this one and not so much with the 45 GAP. I predict that the 357 Sig will be around for quite a while.
 

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Drunk Supernova
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Well. GAP is loaded hotter. So you get a higher velocity from a shorter barrel than you would from an ACP.

Recoil. Think of putting a .45+P from the a 3 inch barrel and there ya go.

Ballistically. Sure.

I see some comparisons to the .357 here. Higher velocity means more open up. But I really do not see enough gain from the GAP to justify cost.
 
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The New York and Pennsylvania State Police are presently carrying Glock Model 37's in 45 GAP. So is the Georgia State Patrol. (Got 'a be better than the 9mm - Right!) :biggrin5:

Conventional 45 acp 185 and 230 grain loads run at a SAAMI chamber pressure of about 21,000 psi. The 45 GAP runs at, or near, a 45 acp +P chamber pressure of 23,000 psi; and, this is done inside barrel and slide configurations with very different dimensions.

In a certain sense the 45 GAP is running as a max'd out round! (Remember with only minor modifications to the pistol a 45 acp can, also, be run as a 45 Super.) In 185 and 200 grain loadings the 45 GAP has an edge in velocity going for it over heavier 45 acp 230 grain loads; but, this increase in velocity has been gained at the expense of a heavier bullet weight and cross sectional density.

Even more important for a combat pistol shooter, the recoil characteristics of the 200 grain 45 GAP cartridge are considerably, ‘snappier’ than the 45 acp which is firing a heavier 230 grain bullet. This means that repetitive (rapid) pistol fire is going to be less accurate and more difficult to control with the 200 grain 45 GAP.

Frankly, I am not as comfortable with the overall design of Glock’s Model 37 as I am with the, now time-proven, Glock Model 21. The G-21 is designed around the larger, heavier, G-20’s slide, frame, and barrel. Most of the 45 acp ammunition I use develops between 18,000 to 21,000 psi; and, it does this inside a chamber that is .138” longer than the 45 GAP, and has significantly thicker chamber walls. In my own experience, the recoil characteristics associated with the 45 acp 230 grain bullet are, also, superlative for pistol combat applications.

There is, also, some question in my mind about subtle differences in recorded test pressures. Remember, chamber pressure is relative to temperature: The hotter it is, the higher that pressure is going to be. In this regard I continue to be more confident of my own safety shooting 45 acp regularly throughout the year.

Other shooters keep telling me that the 45 GAP is generally more pleasant to shoot with factory ammo than the 45 acp, and superior to both the 9mm Luger, and 40 S&W in terminal ballistic performance. OK, maybe so, but with the advantages of: a stronger (and better proven) frame, heavier bullets, better rapid fire recoil characteristics, and (otherwise) nearly identical bullet performance I think I’ll stay with the 45 acp.

‘Why?’ was the 45 GAP invented? Two reasons, I think: First, the G-21 is too large for some peoples’ hands. (Not mine, though!) Second, I honestly believe that Gaston’s ego had something to do with it. Perhaps having his name on 1/2 the pistols in the world just wasn’t enough; so, ammunition became the next logical product to carry the Glock name. Fine! Now Gaston Glock has something in common with Dr. Louis Palmisano; (Who’s very well-regarded in shooting circles around my hometown!) they, each, have a cartridge named after them.

As for the 357 SIG? Like many Pennsylvanians this is a cartridge I consider to be infinitely more useful than the 45 GAP; and, apparently, so do a number of people who work in state law enforcement. (The Pennsylvania Game Commission recently switched to the Glock Model 31 in 357 SIG; and, from internet conversations I’ve had, I know Philadelphia SWAT took a careful look at the 357 SIG, too, before finally deciding to go with the 45 acp.)

With the 357 SIG you get near legendary 357 magnum performance, excellent barrier penetration, and superior terminal ballistics from a semiautomatic pistol in a chambering that many shooters are able to handle with acceptable repetitive fire accuracy and reasonable controllability. (I’ll, still, go with the 45 acp; but, then again, I’m heavily practiced with it!) :wink:
 
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