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I just got my hands on a Rock Island Armory 1911 TAC II FS 10mm, and let me tell you what, this 10mm round has been on the back burner for way too long.
I like the pistol, its fairly basic, with the exception of the VZ grips, and front fiber optic and rear fully adjustable sight. It has ambi safeties, im not a huge fan of ambi safeties since im right handed, but they work. For the money, this thing rocks though. Its accurate, and I mean a full magazine into a 1 3/4" hole at 10 yards unsupported, it locks up tight, and feeds anything ive put in it so far.
The real reason im writing this post is because that 10mm has taken my heart lol. That round is the cats ass as far as im concerned. I think if the 1911 had to have any update to make it "modern" the 10mm chambering does it hands down. Im not trying to incite a riot by saying a 1911 chambered in 10mm is the way to go over the .45, but I don't know that ill ever buy another .45 1911 unless its for the wife, lol. Just looking to see if anyone else has experience with this round and what your thoughts are. If youd like to start an argument over .45 this and that and the other, ill handle you all on a case by case basis. Ill attach a pic too.
 

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if it isn't a .45 in 1911 it isn't a 1911, you started it. that's just my opinion, 1911 has a rep that stands, the companies that recopy them in different calipers are a joke.


I love my true 1911's, they are true, lets keep it that way!
 

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The 1911 is a great design and all of mine are in .45 ACP so far but I personally love the idea of a 10 mm and 9 mm version.
The 10 mm is a much more potent round than the .45 acp and I would consider it as a backup in bear country.
 

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Never had a 10mm so can't comment but there are millions that are just happy with a 45.

I am also waiting for responses about the Cat comment! Cat's get no respect on here. lol
 

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Never had a 10mm so can't comment but there are millions that are just happy with a 45.

I am also waiting for responses about the Cat comment! Cat's get no respect on here. lol
love cats and the houses:lol:
 

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Maybe 20 years ago I had a brand new Colt Delta Elite. The 10mm is a pretty hot round and my only observation was after around 3,000 rounds the gun was getting a little loose. Back then I paid around maybe $550-$600 for that gun new. It shot well and accurate. When I sold it I gave away a bucket of 10mm brass which I regret. I like the round and have thought about replacing that gun. I saw a like new in box recently for $1,000. Overall I really was happy with the 10mm performance.

Ron
 

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I have never shot a 10mm, but I have a .40 cal. so somebody tell me if I am wrong, a 10mm is a .40 and a .40 is a 10mm. at least my dillon dies say that. is there really a difference? :confused:
 

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Maybe 20 years ago I had a brand new Colt Delta Elite. The 10mm is a pretty hot round and my only observation was after around 3,000 rounds the gun was getting a little loose. Back then I paid around maybe $550-$600 for that gun new. It shot well and accurate. When I sold it I gave away a bucket of 10mm brass which I regret. I like the round and have thought about replacing that gun. I saw a like new in box recently for $1,000. Overall I really was happy with the 10mm performance.

Ron
Exactly the problem with 10mm in a 1911 design. If it's shot a lot, it starts coming apart. In full-power loads, the 10mm is close to a 41 Magnum. For durability, that requires a gun specifically made to handle the extra pressure - not an existing gun like the 1911 which was designed for a low-pressure round like the 45 ACP.
 

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I have never shot a 10mm, but I have a .40 cal. so somebody tell me if I am wrong, a 10mm is a .40 and a .40 is a 10mm. at least my dillon dies say that. is there really a difference? :confused:
No difference in bullet diameter or bullet weight; just some added velocity. And pressure.
 

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No difference in bullet diameter or bullet weight; just some added velocity. And pressure.
is the brass casing longer? seems like it would be.
 

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I have never shot a 10mm, but I have a .40 cal. so somebody tell me if I am wrong, a 10mm is a .40 and a .40 is a 10mm. at least my dillon dies say that. is there really a difference? :confused:
The 40 S&W is the spawn of the 10mm auto. Read the Wiki about the Bren Ten. Then read about the 10mm cartridge. I guess we could call the 40 S&W the 10mm Short. :)

Win231 nailed it well:
Exactly the problem with 10mm in a 1911 design. If it's shot a lot, it starts coming apart. In full-power loads, the 10mm is close to a 41 Magnum. For durability, that requires a gun specifically made to handle the extra pressure - not an existing gun like the 1911 which was designed for a low-pressure round like the 45 ACP.
Ron
 

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Yes. The 10mm case is .992" & the 40 S&W case is .850". Bullet diameter is .400 for both. Bullet weights are identical. With a typical 180 gr. bullet, the velocity increase is 200-250 fps. That's where the difference in pressure lies. I've heard the Glock 10mm is currently the only pistol that handles the pressure of the 10mm well. That may be due to the polymer frame flexing & absorbing the extra stress. Even the large, heavy, all steel S&W didn't do well with the 10mm.
 

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Yes. The 10mm case is .992" & the 40 S&W case is .850". Bullet diameter is .400 for both. Bullet weights are identical. With a typical 180 gr. bullet, the velocity increase is 200-250 fps. That's where the difference in pressure lies. I've heard the Glock 10mm is currently the only pistol that handles the pressure of the 10mm well. That may be due to the polymer frame flexing & absorbing the extra stress. Even the large, heavy, all steel S&W didn't do well with the 10mm.
thanks Win, i will remember that. I wonder if the Glock haters know that?:lol:
 

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The 40 S&W is the spawn of the 10mm auto. Read the Wiki about the Bren Ten. Then read about the 10mm cartridge. I guess we could call the 40 S&W the 10mm Short. :)

Win231 nailed it well:




Ron
thanks reloadron, you and Win Educated me today...thanks what good about NGF:smile5:
 

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The 10 mm is one of my favorite auto pistol rounds. I have a few pistols chambered in 10 and they get carried for my cpl and in the woods. I took a deer with one of my Smith and Wesson 1006s.

I have been looking at the same pistol you just purchased. I really like them. I wish they would offer a long slide version as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
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I figured there would be people out there that couldn't stand a 1911 in anything but .45. To each their own I say, I just like to hear how people justify why they have their allegiances. I work on heavy equipment all day, and have been getting into some gunsmithing, so I don't mind having to work on a pistol if or when it needs it. As a matter of fact I actually like pushing the equipment I own relatively hard, I guess that comes from my military days, seeing what people can do to objects, and knowing what kind of wear and tear combat can have on machinery like guns. In 45 ACP, a 1911 is a well rounded performer and proven man stopper. It certainly is the standard by which all other handguns are compared to eventually in one way or another.
With all of that being said, I feel that the 10mm round hasn't been marketed right, ever. From its conception it was designed to be a hot shooting defensive cartridge, and I really believe Jeff Cooper and Norma should get way more credit for bringing this to life, or at least there should be a lot more buzz behind it. I believe there were many factors in this cartridge being an initial failure commercially, but that a few quiet but wise men saw the potential of this cartridge, just couldn't come up with a way to offer it after the failure of the Bren Ten, and then later on after the FBI deemed it too heavy in the recoil department. I don't think at that point people would have been as open minded about a 10mm 1911, although a few have been offered throughout the years.
I think after all this warfare we have been engaged in for the last 13 years has progressed, and some of the military logic has changed and new doctrines have slowly evolved over how powerful a cartridge should be, we have come to accept that some weapon platforms are well suited to multiple caliber builds. A few examples I could cite are the development and fast track SAAMI standardization of the 6.8 SPC round, the development of the .300 Blackout geared toward suppressed applications in the AR15/M16/M4 family , the revisiting of the .45 ACP in an updated (railed, better grips, safeties, sights, triggers, functionality) 1911 for the MEU/SOC Marines, as opposed to the Beretta M9 (which is a fine weapon), man portable heavy caliber rounds like the 20mm in the XM25. Then there is the civilian side of the market that came up with things like the .30 Remington AR, which basically mimics a 7.62X39, but is straight walled and works well in the AR platform without any significant dimensional changes to the rifle.
That leads me to the point of how we have kept a lot of our old work horses, like the AR, we basically brought the M14 out of retirement, and close tolerance hand built bolt guns are still the preference for ultra long distance shooting, and how we adopted the .300 Win Mag to fill the gap between the 7.62x51 NATO and the .50 BMG in long distance applications, yes the .338 Lapua mag is even a little too spendy for the DoD, save some high speed tier one guys who get whatever they hell they want anyway (and rightfully so).
Ill bring this back around by saying that I believe the 1911 is a perfect fit for the 10mm. Yeah its not "classic", or "true" to the original, but its the perfect platform for the cartridge without having to design a new pistol for it. The Bren Ten was a hack job of 1911 and CZ75 ergonomics and functional controls, but it wasn't as good as either was by themselves. Glock has had decent success with the G20 in 10mm, and anyone who has shot a few different glocks knows that going from a G23 in .40 to a G21 in .45 is for sure two different weapons size wise. Comparatively speaking a 1911 is a little more svelte than a G21 and basically occupies the same real estate space in a holster no matter where it is. As long as your safety and slide catch plunger tube, and your slide stop don't come off a 1911, the gun can handle a substantial amount of abuse without excessive wear compared to any other 10mm package out there. In its full steel form, the 1911, even in different than .45 calibers, offers a Cadillac style experience in handling, and I mean that in the best way possible.
Coogan had a good idea, and an awesome set up in the .357 mag 1911 style pistol he builds. But a standard size 1911 in 10mm offers a lot, and I mean ALOT, of firepower in a standard size package.
In short Ill end this and sum it up this way, if a .45 1911 was a Cobra, it would be the 289 powered version. Well rounded, excellent power to weight, and with superb handling. the 10mm 1911 would be the 427 powered version. Loud, doesn't handle as well as the small block, and sometimes may come back to the shop in a box of pieces, but its a whole hell of a lot of fun while it lasts!
 

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I have have a number of guns chambered in the 10MM and have shot the 10MM since it was introduced. I cannot say enough good about that round. The 10MM is powerful, flat shooting and VERY accurate.

If you want to shoot 10MM in the 1911 frame (or most others for that matter), you need to replace the 18LB mainspring with a 22LB (from Wolff or whoever). This slows down slide and keeps it from slamming into the frame, also helps empty brass from being thrown into the next county.

Most of the 10MM ammo sold today, is a far cry from the Norma loads that were the mainstay when the 10MM first arrived. In the Norma loading the10MM had the true power of the 41 Mag. Now it is little more than a +P 40 cal. For the naysayers I reload (and have for almost 50 years) and have reloaded 10MMs to the original Norma loadings, as introduced by Jeff Cooper and have had no problems (I own S&Ws, Kimbers, EAAs, and Colts) and yes I still shoot factory 10MMs also, it is just cheaper to reload and I can load to whatever SAFE power I want.

Several companies still make the Norma equivalent, such as Buffalo Bore and CorBond and some others, so if you want a thrill find a friend with a 10MM buy a box of Buffalo Bore and go shooting.
 

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I was looking in my parts box for a spring..........
When I found a 1911 - 10 MM barrel and bushing
No clue when I picked this up But it looked new or darn close. Time for an experiment I thought
OK I just put togeather the slide , 10 mm barrel and the rest of the slide parts for a complete upper for my 1911 70 Series
Arose a question: Will mid range 10 MM loads hurt my frame ?

I contacted Colt on the issue and asked if the frame would crack. The rep said the reason frames cracked was because they were built on a .45 receiver. As you know the .45 is a much lower recoil. These problems were evident on the 1987-1989 and they fixed the problem. It was almost rare for it to happen after that.

1200 FPS is a standard 10mm. Some companies don't even get past 1000 (look at federal hydra shok). Remington UMC is 1150. While underwood states that it should only be used in ramped barrels. I think they did it for liability than not having it be able to do it. Underwood makes a DE safe round (out of stock for the longest time) but the FPS is 60 fps slower than the non safe. its not like its 100 or more of a difference. I think they don't want to have a lawsuit in the event someone cracked their frame with their ammo, not that the gun couldn't handle it.

So I changed the .45 receiver and my 10mm 1911 is unbelievably accurate. I was firing recently and thought the second shot had missed the entire target at 10 yds. I am a better shot than that. Third shot I saw the target paper wiggle a tad. I realized it was three bullets in one hole! two more shots and the measured group was .5", which given the .4" diameter of the bullet, I call that a one hole group. My shooting partner a friend of a friend had a 586 and couldn't shoot that good with my gun. Won a big box good cigars! There you go! rgds ARMARIN


2q2puno.jpg



 

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IMHO, there would be more "acceptance" of the 10mm round, if it wasn't called a "10mm". Instead if it was referred to as a .40+P or .40Mag., then (again IMHO) people might be willing to spend $$$ on the caliber.

As Seth Godin said, "Marketing is a contest for people's attention."

Just a thought.
 
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