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  1. #41
    Senior Member NGF Addict! Trocisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX1911 View Post
    That's totally what I said!

  2. #42
    Drunk Supernova NGF Addict! C-D-P's Avatar
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    Hey TX. Question for you. How does Texas define habitation in regards to the Castle Doctrine? I found the text for the doctrine itself, and it says "(4) "Habitation" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01."

    But I can not find Section 30.01.
    “I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”

  3. #43
    Texas Legal Gunslinger NGF Addict! TX1911's Avatar
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    Verbatim from the Penal Code:

    Sec. 30.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:(1) "Habitation" means a structure or vehicle that is adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons, and includes:(A) each separately secured or occupied portion of the structure or vehicle; and(B) each structure appurtenant to or connected with the structure or vehicle.(2) "Building" means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament, or use.(3) "Vehicle" includes any device in, on, or by which any person or property is or may be propelled, moved, or drawn in the normal course of commerce or transportation, except such devices as are classified as "habitation."
    The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46 - James Madison

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  5. #44
    Drunk Supernova NGF Addict! C-D-P's Avatar
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    Thank you. Did they not release Mr. Horn because they said that his yard is also covered under the castle doctrine/Stand your ground law?
    “I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”

  6. #45
    Texas Legal Gunslinger NGF Addict! TX1911's Avatar
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    Mr. Horn was protected by Section 9.31 of the Texas Penal Code which provides, in relevant part:

    The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
    (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
    C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
    Emphasis added.

    Mr. Horn's issue was somewhat unique in that one of the individuals came towards him while the other is alleged to have run away. Debate arose as to whether or not the fleeing individual was shot while in Mr. Horn's yard or while he was fleeing. Pasadena, Tx police did confirm that the fleeing individual was shot while in Mr. Horn's yard.

    Unfortunately for Mr. Horn, I highly doubt that this will be the last we hear of this issue. The local activist, Quanell X has, throughout the ordeal, expressed a deep deep interest in the outcome.
    The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46 - James Madison

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  7. #46
    Drunk Supernova NGF Addict! C-D-P's Avatar
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    Ok cool. Thanks.
    “I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”

  8. #47
    gmofftarki
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-D-P View Post
    And as was described in the OP, he felt as if he was in danger. Along with lethal force there is also reasonable force. Reasonable force is using the lowest level of force possible to stop the attack. While he was probably justified in using lethal force, he used reasonable force. Just because you draw, does not mean you have to fire. It just means that you better be justified in firing. If you can eliminate the threat with lesser force after you draw, but before you fire, then all the better. That is called escalation of force.
    I had been under the impression that showing a firearm was always considered deadly/lethal force regardless of whether or not you actually had to use it?

  9. #48
    Texas Legal Gunslinger NGF Addict! TX1911's Avatar
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    In Texas,

    Sec. 9.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:(3) "Deadly force" means force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.
    The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46 - James Madison

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  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmofftarki View Post
    I had been under the impression that showing a firearm was always considered deadly/lethal force regardless of whether or not you actually had to use it?
    Depending on the state? Yes. Which is why I said.

    It just means that you better be justified in firing.
    “I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”

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