Went to the Post Office today
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Thread: Went to the Post Office today

  1. #1
    Senior Member NGF Addict!
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    Default Went to the Post Office today

    Looked real hard for a gun free zone sign all I could find was a sign that said something about not committing armed robbery at the post office.
    I had to pick up a package from the clerk so I asked her.
    There are no notices of firearm restrictions here, do you know if concealed carry is permitted?
    After the deer in the headlights stare, she stated she had no clue, Fine I will try to find out on my own.

    I found this from 2012
    Most of us believe we understand concealed carry laws fairly well. After all, we know we cannot carry concealed in a courthouse, we know we cannot carry concealed in an airport, and in the vast majority of states we’re not allowed to carry concealed inside a school.
    In fact, the Code of Federal Regulations — Title 39 — which is named “Conduct on Postal Property” says “No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.”

    I realize that may sound “dumb” and hard to believe, but the above Title 39 paragraph clearly states “on postal property, except for official purposes.”
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In 1972, the Postal Service enacted regulations that prevented open and concealed-carry weapons and explosives on postal property

    2012
    Clarence Paul Dorosan needed to go to the Post Office as badly as any man ever did; he worked there. At some point the boss learned that he had a handgun in the car. Many persons rely on the weapon being concealed to prevent consequences. Mr. Dorosan’s case is one of many proving that this reliance is not 100 percent effective. The consequences include loss of a job, loss of a concealed weapons license, and the addition of a criminal record and jail time.10
    Mr. Dorosan was charged in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana. He was convicted; so much for the belief that good old boys let such things slide. He appealed, stating that the regulation violated his Second Amendment rights under the Heller decision. In a perfunctory one-page decision, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that it did not. The court ruled that the Postal Service owned the parking lot and as the property owner could make such rules and, “moreover” it was a “sensitive place” and thus subject to such rules. The argument that the Postal Service is simply a property owner is weak. Government agencies only have the authority they are given by statute. Different government agencies have different weapons rules for property they control. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    2013 a federal judge ruled citizens can carry firearms in the parking lot
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    So can someone clarify this for me?
    Last edited by underdog; 05-20-2015 at 06:14 AM.

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    Senior Member NGF Addict! Square target's Avatar
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    My post office clearly has a sign that no weapons are allowed but you post got me thinking about something. Most of the rural post offices around here are not owned by the post office, they are rented. Would a rented building be considered postal property? Someone else actually owns the property and I'm willing to bet my area is not an anomaly and it's done across the country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square target View Post
    My post office clearly has a sign that no weapons are allowed but you post got me thinking about something. Most of the rural post offices around here are not owned by the post office, they are rented. Would a rented building be considered postal property? Someone else actually owns the property and I'm willing to bet my area is not an anomaly and it's done across the country.
    A federal post office is a federal post office. There is no distinction between federally owned property or federally rented property. Just like a castle doctrine makes no distinction between a owned home and rented apartment.
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    Ok so it is a federal building With a no weapon policy.

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    Bonidy has a concealed-carry permit and carries regularly and frequently utilizes the Post Office. He took his case to court with the help of gun rights organization the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch delivered a two-part ruling, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    In his decision, the judge agreed with the Post Office’s interpretation of existing law which gives them the right to “[govern] conduct on postal property prevent (Bonidy) from carrying firearms, openly or concealed, onto any real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service.”
    Matsch said that public safety trumps individual safety within the walls of the Post Office, but doesn’t run all the way out to the parking lot.
    According to the ruling, Matsch said, “An individual openly carrying a firearm may excite passions, or excited passions may lead to the use of the firearm. Someone could also attempt to take the firearm from its lawful carrier and use it for criminal purpose.”
    However, he did not extend the regulations into Bonidy’s vehicle. Under most circumstances in Colorado, a person’s vehicle is considered an extension of their home where property laws are considered.
    And in fact, Colorado law already supports the right to secure vehicular property with arms.


    Does someone have recent facts about there parking lot policy?
    Last edited by underdog; 05-20-2015 at 06:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by underdog View Post
    Ok so it is a federal building With a no weapon policy.

    Does someone have recent facts about there parking lot policy?
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    The Modern Postal Service: Agency or Business?
    Until adoption of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, the U.S. Postal Service functioned as a regular, tax-supported, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    According to the laws under which it now operates, the U.S. Postal Service is a semi-independent federal agency, mandated to be revenue-neutral. That is, it is supposed to break even, not make a profit.
    In 1982, U.S. postage stamps became "postal products," rather than a form of taxation. Since then, the bulk of the cost of operating the postal system has been paid for by customers through the sale of "postal products" and services rather than taxes.


    No, the USPS is a Business!
    the Postal Service takes on some several very non-governmental attributes via the powers granted to it under [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], which include:

    • power to sue (and be sued) under its own name;


    • power to adopt, amend and repeal its own regulations;


    • power to "enter into and perform contracts, execute instruments, and determine the character of, and necessity for, its expenditures";


    • power to buy, sell and lease private property; and,


    • power to build, operate, lease and maintain buildings and facilities.

    All of which are typical functions and powers of a private business. However, unlike other private businesses, the Postal Service is exempt from [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. USPS can borrow [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and can condemn and acquire private property under governmental rights of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    The USPS does get some taxpayer support.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    That was 2013 Mad
    Has anything changed since then?
    Was the judges ruling later overturned?
    I cannot locate current policy

    And now I am wondering if it is in fact a federal building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by underdog View Post
    That was 2013 Mad
    Has anything changed since then?
    Was the judges ruling later overturned?
    I cannot locate current policy

    And now I am wondering if it is in fact a federal building.
    As far as I know, currently you can carry in the USPS parking lot, but not the building.
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    Wag
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    If you're an attorney and you want to take it to task, use this:

    “No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.”
    Buying stamps, sending mail, etc. are all "official purposes." Of course, the court is going to rule that the definition of "official purposes" means those individuals who are running the business, no utilizing the facility. Nevertheless, you might get surprised.

    --Wag--
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Scientist View Post
    As far as I know, currently you can carry in the USPS parking lot, but not the building.
    That's the way it is at VA medical establishments.
    The difference between a Socialist and a Communist is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.

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