HP says it will limit its 3-D printers' ability to create 'ghost guns'
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Thread: HP says it will limit its 3-D printers' ability to create 'ghost guns'

  1. #1
    Grand Imperial Poobah NGF Addict! Mad Scientist's Avatar
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    Default HP says it will limit its 3-D printers' ability to create 'ghost guns'

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    HP Inc. says it won’t allow users of its [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] unless those users are firearms manufacturers and the weapons that are created can be detected by airport security.


    The [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]-based company – one of the world’s biggest sellers of personal computers and printers – cited its “regular use” policy that precludes it from allowing its printers from being used to make homemade guns.


    “HP is against ‘ghost guns’ being produced on our 3-D printers,” HP Chief Executive Dion Weisler wrote in the November letter, obtained by the Oregonian/OregonLive.



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    HP did not say how it would stop people from using its products to make ghost guns -- weapons that are untraceable and unregulated -- and it was unclear how the policy would limit their production.


    Fox News tried to contact HP for additional comments but did not receive a response.



    HP’s 3-D printers are primarily used by commercial businesses and run from $50,000 to $300,000, according to the paper. Printing experts have said determined hobbyists could probably find a way around the restrictions.


    Dogan Yirmibesoglu, an Oregon State University researcher studying 3-D printers, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] that restricting [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] may be the most effective way of limiting 3-D printed guns.



    “It’s a problematic issue,” he said. “But if there’s no blueprints of the weapons online, out there for free, nobody can print those unless they’re gun specialists.”

    Idiots. If they had a clue, they would know the blueprints are already on the internet and there are better 3D printers than anything HP makes.

    I stopped buying HP junk years ago. I'll get a Canon, Brother or Epson printer or use paper and a crayon before I will get another HP product.
    Kobs likes this.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member BigNastyCowboy's Avatar
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    I'm a retired IT guy.

    3-D printing, regardless of the end item, is very hard to do. There are two (2) kinds of plastics: one is flexible and the other is rigid. Neither is ideal for making a gun.

    Each part of the gun must be made separately to specifications and each take hours to complete. Also, the process is not "plug-n-play."

    It requires a level of expertise few people have. In total, there are many "moving parts."

    The explosion warps the soft plastic and cracks the more rigid one. These low-end guns are for single use.

    One solution is to make a hybrid: 3-D printing plastic parts around off-the-shelf metal parts. Doing so defeats the attempt to get the weapon past detectors, but does produce a non-serialized gun.

    Another reason to 3-D print a gun is to avoid the serial number on OEM guns. There are metal 3-D printers costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and higher, and requires a sophisticated level of expertise to work with melted metal.

    Bad actors intending to rob people will not get much ROI that way.

    A better solution than 3-D printing a gun with metal is to buy a gun and file off the serial number.

    That's the state of the art of 3-D printing guns but there's another deal-breaker:

    The templates for printing are in digital form.

    To digress by way of analogy, consider malware at the end of an email link or accessible via a harmful web site.

    When I go down that road, trip wires (Malwarebytes, Windows Defender, Norton, Symantec, McAfee, other) let me know. How do they identify the badnasty code?

    There's a large database that stores malicious code and all files are scanned against that database to see if fragments of malicious code are embedded in the link or web destination.

    High-end printers phone home. When the printer is low on ink, the consumer is invited to purchase replacements in real time from the manufacturer.

    It's not a difficult stretch to imagine a printer examining a 3-D gun print file to see if all or parts of it are stored in a database. HP has access to all of the 3-D gun printer files that you and I do.

    To conclude, there are many hobbyists who mill weapons at their homes using off-the-shelf power tools. Those tried and true methods require certain levels of expertise and the guns don't have serial numbers.

    Of the two methods -- milling or 3-D printing -- milling is much easier and cost-effective.

    Of course, the easiest way to acquire a gun is to buy a piece of crap off the street.

    Thank you.

    I am not an advocate for, or against, 3-D gun printing. I'm not interested in building, OK?

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    RELOAD=More PEW PEW NGF Addict! Kobs's Avatar
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    I think you would still need a steel barrel for the pressure when the round fires, not counting the rifling, otherwise why go through the trouble of printing it, might as well drill a block of wood

    Edit:
    Ok after watching the video the guy says there is plastics today that can withstand the pressure.... ok but I'd need proof of that, and I certainly wouldn't volunteer to try one made entirely out of plastic even if it was a .22 . The way they're talking it's like a 3D printer is so affordable even kids with their allowance can buy one (and the special super plastic) without their parents knowing and build an AR
    Last edited by Kobs; 01-16-2019 at 01:09 PM.
    ​I WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO AND DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY ACTIONS LATER

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    Senior Member NGF Addict! friendof2nd's Avatar
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    Another company who, while riding the big white horse of virtue, is declaring that it would restrict a product they sell to only do what the company believe is OK to do. Another way to censure the end user, another way to control the end user. What will it be next? Preventing an end user from making a part to repair a device, because the company will consider making the part unfair competition for the company producing the device?

    Control of the masses at its best. Restricting American ingenuity because it may offend some one or affect the deep pockets of a big corporation.
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    These things are going to wind up like drones you will buy one only to look at it, you won't be able to use it without tripping over a restriction somewhere

    Btw, here they're talking about forcing peoples to get permits to fly a drone and your toy will need a license plate like a car so they can track it back to you
    ​I WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO AND DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY ACTIONS LATER

    They say time flies when you're having fun, so now that i'm old, how come i'm not having fun and time flies faster than when I had fun as a kid ?

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    Senior Member BigNastyCowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friendof2nd View Post
    Another company who, while riding the big white horse of virtue, is declaring that it would restrict a product they sell to only do what the company believe is OK to do. Another way to censure the end user, another way to control the end user. What will it be next? Preventing an end user from making a part to repair a device, because the company will consider making the part unfair competition for the company producing the device?

    Control of the masses at its best. Restricting American ingenuity because it may offend some one or affect the deep pockets of a big corporation.
    Looking at this on the back channels, it's a strategic move on HP's part to avoid litigation.

    Imagine a gun blowing up in someone's face or someone using one of these things to kill people.

    Plaintiff attorney: "HP, as defendants in this matter, we ask if you had any way to anticipate and avoid ..."

    HP: "Gulp." Appreciate that HP has deep pockets.

    That's the reason for the exception regarding professional manufacturers. Those people know what they are doing and HP would be out of the picture.

    Again: I don't give a rat's patootie if people 3-D print guns or not.

  8. #7
    Cynical Millennial Arctic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigNastyCowboy View Post
    I'm a retired IT guy.

    3-D printing, regardless of the end item, is very hard to do. There are two (2) kinds of plastics: one is flexible and the other is rigid. Neither is ideal for making a gun.

    Each part of the gun must be made separately to specifications and each take hours to complete. Also, the process is not "plug-n-play."

    It requires a level of expertise few people have. In total, there are many "moving parts."

    The explosion warps the soft plastic and cracks the more rigid one. These low-end guns are for single use.

    One solution is to make a hybrid: 3-D printing plastic parts around off-the-shelf metal parts. Doing so defeats the attempt to get the weapon past detectors, but does produce a non-serialized gun.

    Another reason to 3-D print a gun is to avoid the serial number on OEM guns. There are metal 3-D printers costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and higher, and requires a sophisticated level of expertise to work with melted metal.

    Bad actors intending to rob people will not get much ROI that way.

    A better solution than 3-D printing a gun with metal is to buy a gun and file off the serial number.

    That's the state of the art of 3-D printing guns but there's another deal-breaker:

    The templates for printing are in digital form.

    To digress by way of analogy, consider malware at the end of an email link or accessible via a harmful web site.

    When I go down that road, trip wires (Malwarebytes, Windows Defender, Norton, Symantec, McAfee, other) let me know. How do they identify the badnasty code?

    There's a large database that stores malicious code and all files are scanned against that database to see if fragments of malicious code are embedded in the link or web destination.

    High-end printers phone home. When the printer is low on ink, the consumer is invited to purchase replacements in real time from the manufacturer.

    It's not a difficult stretch to imagine a printer examining a 3-D gun print file to see if all or parts of it are stored in a database. HP has access to all of the 3-D gun printer files that you and I do.

    To conclude, there are many hobbyists who mill weapons at their homes using off-the-shelf power tools. Those tried and true methods require certain levels of expertise and the guns don't have serial numbers.

    Of the two methods -- milling or 3-D printing -- milling is much easier and cost-effective.

    Of course, the easiest way to acquire a gun is to buy a piece of crap off the street.

    Thank you.

    I am not an advocate for, or against, 3-D gun printing. I'm not interested in building, OK?
    Just buy an AK 47 flat or download an AK47 flat stencel and cut one out of a sheet of metal then press it into shape the. you can solder or tack weld the various rails in place and rivit the rest. All the other parts can be gotten sans serial numbers from any number of gun shops and even the barrel can be made fairly easily with common shop tools if you have access to them and quality is not a concern. You can then make said AK47 full auto very easily as buying a full auto trigger group is perfectly legal hell i have 4 of them and if you have knowledge of where to drill the giggle hole well....

    I have made 3 AK47s now one entirely from scratch save the barrel and it is not a hard process or as others have said picking up a stolen gun and fileing or drimmeling off the serial number is no big deal.

    As of right now as you noted the only way to 3d print a gun that can be used for more then one shot is to use a 30k+ metal printer many of which still would be unable to do the job and require much more knowledge then other far easier methods. Hell i have seen basic semi auto 9mm made from off the shelf plumbing parts and 10 minutes of welding and drilling and single shot weapons made with plumbing parts in far less time.

    This whole 3d printer scare thing is a moot point until such a time as 3d printers that can print complicated durable metal objects easily become both common and affordablr as well as idiot proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    These things are going to wind up like drones you will buy one only to look at it, you won't be able to use it without tripping over a restriction somewhere

    Btw, here they're talking about forcing peoples to get permits to fly a drone and your toy will need a license plate like a car so they can track it back to you
    to be fair the whole drone thing is a bit out of control. besides ive always wondered why no one has regulated the shit out od them before now. a terrorist can take a few of the cheaper ones strap C4 full of shrapnel and fly them into large crowds before detonateing them or hell just attach a gernade or pipe bomb to them among many other nasty things. another example is some drones can lift 50+ pounds and 50 pounds of white phosperious for example could do one hell of a number on a crowd at say a stadium or concert.

    Maybe not as persional as a mass shooting but a terrorist could easily do dozens of these attacks in one day before being caught rather then a 1 and done.
    Last edited by Arctic; 01-17-2019 at 05:55 AM.

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    Senior Member BigNastyCowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic View Post
    As of right now as you noted the only way to 3d print a gun that can be used for more then one shot is to use a 30k+ metal printer many of which still would be unable to do the job and require much more knowledge then other far easier methods. Hell i have seen basic semi auto 9mm made from off the shelf plumbing parts and 10 minutes of welding and drilling and single shot weapons made with plumbing parts in far less time.
    Your points are well taken and that all solves the problem of serialization but does nothing to address metal detectors.

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    I wouldn't shoot one of those things with someone else's hand even with a .22 short.
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    I've seen proposals for a 3D-printed 9mm sidearm that uses an extra-long cartridge case with the bullet embedded far back into the case. The case then also acts as a barrel. This would afford a measure of safety for the shooter (who would be shooting a smoothbore).

    But everyone is doing this for show. The 3D printers know it would be easier to get a regular gun, and so does Hewlett-Packard. It's a sideshow in 'the gun debate' and gets eyeballs and clicks. BTW I'm doing a fair amount of 3D printing lately and as fine as the tech may be, gunwise, it can't compete with what's already on the street. Not even 200 years ago.
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