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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreybeardBard View Post
    It was my understanding that the .40 (10mm) round was the work around for that restriction. I have never bought into the notion of the Euro folks banning hollow points. I know they consider them "hunting" ammo where the purpose is to put the game animal down and dead as fast, and hence humanely as possible. What I've never understood is why I shouldn't put the bad guy trying to kill me down as fast and humanely as possible. Why treat the criminal worse than you would a deer?
    I see. Well, if my memory serves me, then hollow points are prohibited even for hunting. They are illegal in civil use, so I assume it includes hunters too.

    One thing is exactly what you said - why not have as effective ammo as possible for self defence, that is hollow points, but the other thing is, it's way safer ammo too. FMJs are more prone to ricochet and overpenetrate. Don't know why they banned it here...

  2. #12
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    I chose the 1911 because of it's slimness (easier to carry IWB), bigger caliber (I know 9 mm is pretty much as effective as a 45 with good hollow points, but as I mentioned above, no hollowpoints for me), it looks good and I'm pretty accurate with it.
    i believe the above statement probably answers most of what works for you...........



    The main thing I want to know about is the ballistics of the .45 vs 9 mm. The rest is not very important, the debate will never end between capacity and stopping power etc. I need some facts, so anyone who is knowledgeable and willing to share ideas is appreciated.
    i would not pay a whole lot of attention to what is on paper.... ballistic wise in this case You are going to have various arguments about velocity vs weight vs caliber in any caliber that will have its ballistic champions. Add to the fact that we are talking FMJ only and for me the only viable choice would be the 45.

    On another side note, the U.S. Military along with various war stories from the past and present might shed some light on this subject. As far as i know in the vast majority of cases, the 45 is the preferred round due to its excellent actual history in combat. While the 9mm.....while effective, has not the same colorful reputation for getting the job done with FMJ as the 45 does. The 9mm advantage rests with capacity and recoil management to supplement where it is lacking compared to the 45.

    I know you do not want to discuss the capacity argument and remove capacity from consideration......but level the playing field for one moment.....ask this question to yourself. Using only FMJ ammunition, would you chose a Glock 9mm that only had a capacity of 8 rounds......or would you chose that 1911 in 45 that had a capacity of 8 rounds?.......ballistics be damned in this case.....i will take the 45.....especially if it is offered in a top of the line 1911 like what you have and especially if i am already comfortable with the system and the method of carry.

    Plus i am not a fan of the glock passive safety system......and would be more paranoid about it using IWB carry.
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  3. #13
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    Ever considered a good Revolver? A .357 Mag loaded with Semi Wadcutters is quite formidable on most things two legged and four.
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  5. #14
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    Concealed carry is 99.9% carry and .1% shooting at best. Have something that you can carry concealed or open and is not too heavy or bulky, so that you will carry it. There are many small 9mm's out there now. They are most sufficient for self defense. I have in the past, used 9mm ball ammo with success. I am still here.

    I do not like the Glock or any of that "safe trigger" ilk. Give me a double action only trigger and that is fine. I have a Ruger LC9 which is safe and shoots quite well. It is concealable and easy to shoot.

    Personally I think the 1911 is moribund and not really the best idea for most people to carry; especially loaded and cocked. Remember, the military did not allow cocked and locked carry. Too much can go wrong. If one is carrying for protection, carry something that will work but that is comfortable and safe. Good luck!

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    I have to agree with the "stick with what you already have".

    Here's why. Full metal jacket bullets penetrate farther than hollow-points.

    Now, what we are looking at here, between the 9mm, and the 45ACP, is size and

    power, but it's deceptive. If you reload, you know the 45ACP takes @5.3 grains

    of powder, approximately, on average. The 9mm takes almost as much [email protected] to 4.7 grains

    powder, approximately, on average. So the 9mm bullet has about half the surface area, with a much higher

    proportion of powder to it's bullet size and weight. This is going to cause a smaller hole in the bad guy, then

    by over penetration, do far more damage to unintended things in the backdrop of your self defense shooting field.


    The 45ACP is going to be much more effective in placing the power of the round in the intended place.

    And stick with the pistol you have, too. After handling a Sig's quality, IMHO, you would probably find Glock a big

    disappointment.
    Last edited by therewolf; 10-20-2016 at 05:57 PM.

  7. #16
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    I will offer my personal thought. One thought you might want to think about is ammunition availability. I don't know what is available locally as to .45acp or 9MM, or how easy it is to get in your country now or in the future. As 9MM is the universal round for NATO and would be easier to find if the world went up side down. On the other hand you already own the Sig in .45acp, why spend the cash to buy another firearm and sell the one you have at a loss. My thought from my way of thinking, is as you can is start buying ammo and setting is aside for the rainy day that will come sooner than later. I don't know if you are allowed, but I would stockpile several thousand rounds in a safe place and rotate your stockpile as you can.

    Just a thought.
    Alway shoot safe and have fun doing it

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    I'm on the "stick with what you have" side of the fence. A FMJ 9mm will have more penetration, but you'll also have a greater chance of a bullet going through and through the perpetrator and traveling on to damage something or someone else.
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  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputy View Post
    i believe the above statement probably answers most of what works for you...........





    i would not pay a whole lot of attention to what is on paper.... ballistic wise in this case You are going to have various arguments about velocity vs weight vs caliber in any caliber that will have its ballistic champions. Add to the fact that we are talking FMJ only and for me the only viable choice would be the 45.

    On another side note, the U.S. Military along with various war stories from the past and present might shed some light on this subject. As far as i know in the vast majority of cases, the 45 is the preferred round due to its excellent actual history in combat. While the 9mm.....while effective, has not the same colorful reputation for getting the job done with FMJ as the 45 does. The 9mm advantage rests with capacity and recoil management to supplement where it is lacking compared to the 45.

    I know you do not want to discuss the capacity argument and remove capacity from consideration......but level the playing field for one moment.....ask this question to yourself. Using only FMJ ammunition, would you chose a Glock 9mm that only had a capacity of 8 rounds......or would you chose that 1911 in 45 that had a capacity of 8 rounds?.......ballistics be damned in this case.....i will take the 45.....especially if it is offered in a top of the line 1911 like what you have and especially if i am already comfortable with the system and the method of carry.

    Plus i am not a fan of the glock passive safety system......and would be more paranoid about it using IWB carry.
    I agree with you on that, I would rather go for a 45 8 rounds than 9mm 8 rounds. The quality of the gun is indeed good, haven't had any malfunctions yet, not even feeding/extracting problems. I've heard about few stories from 1911 era, how some guy shot down a Zero (can't really say it was due to caliber, just had to penetrate a layer of glass), and the second story which is a bit more into the caliber stuff, how they tested it on different animals and (dead) humans and concluded that this is the smallest caliber that is effective enough (no hollow points were around at that time of history). And also about the Moro tribesmen, but you all probably know that already...

    Anyway, I think I'm getting a clearer picture now and I can safely say I'm in better hands with the 1911 than I would be with the Glock. Quoting therewolf whom I agree with that 9 mm has more overpenetration that 45. And with FMJs, overpenetration is not good at all in self defence situation.

    At first I thought that if ballistics were nearly identical, then it would be tempting to have those extra rounds and lightweight, but now I'm seeing that it's not as simple as that, 45 is still, in my opinion more effective than a 9 in FMJ, it carries more kinetic energy with it and makes a bit bigger hole, but I guess that's another debate, and the overpenetration is also something I wouldn't want.

    Thanks for your response.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teuthis View Post
    Concealed carry is 99.9% carry and .1% shooting at best. Have something that you can carry concealed or open and is not too heavy or bulky, so that you will carry it. There are many small 9mm's out there now. They are most sufficient for self defense. I have in the past, used 9mm ball ammo with success. I am still here.

    I do not like the Glock or any of that "safe trigger" ilk. Give me a double action only trigger and that is fine. I have a Ruger LC9 which is safe and shoots quite well. It is concealable and easy to shoot.

    Personally I think the 1911 is moribund and not really the best idea for most people to carry; especially loaded and cocked. Remember, the military did not allow cocked and locked carry. Too much can go wrong. If one is carrying for protection, carry something that will work but that is comfortable and safe. Good luck!
    Thanks for sharing. I'm the type of the person who wants the gun to look good too, some designs are just unacceptable to me, like a walther P22Q. I don't know whether it's a reliable pistol or not, but I just couldn't buy something like that, it looks like a toy bb gun, but that's just me. Glocks are called ugly too, but not as ugly, I see some beauty in them too...maybe.

    In my case, I would have to "israeli carry" my 1911, meaning no round in the chamber, since that's what the law says.

  11. #20
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    "I'm on the "stick with what you have" side of the fence. A FMJ 9mm will have more penetration, but you'll also have a greater chance of a bullet going through and through the perpetrator and traveling on to damage something or someone else."

    Gotta agree with you and therewolf​ on that matter.
    Last edited by TM93; 10-21-2016 at 09:26 AM.

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