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Concealed Carry & Open Carry - It is the same basic Right

7K views 60 replies 18 participants last post by  Brewster 
#1 ·
i would like to start a conversation regarding the rift between the to carry options.

It should be personal preference, and it is really about the 2nd Amendment after all!




Speak your mind, but remember, we are all brothers and sisters in this fight for the Constitution!
 
#3 · (Edited)
The best argument I read.
The Constitution says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
So if the government puts restrictions on one carry option the other must be Constitutional carry.
The government wants control of both ways.

I say bearing arms is one thing with two choices.
People today seem to prefer out of sight out of mind.
But
I think? Out in the open probably serves all better.


“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
Robert A. Heinlein Quotes (Author of Stranger in a Strange Land)
Robert A. Heinlein



 
#13 · (Edited)
That turned out to be a media lie, it was a passer buy, that called, here is the quote from CJ, and the ONLY 911 call.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Open carry advocates legally exercising their right to keep and bear arms made news last week in Fort Worth. Several media agencies immediately reported the presence of armed individuals at the Jack In The Box resulted in employees "locking themselves inside a freezer for protection out of fear the rifle-carrying men would rob them."

Open Carry Texas reached out to the Fort Worth Police Department and Jack In The Box headquarters to verify this report. While Fort Worth Police Department has failed to explain their statement to the media, Jack In The Box Director of Asset Protection Gene James made the following statement:

"What I can raise my hand on and swear to an oath is that what I was told by my employees is that they did not seek refuge in the freezer. On its face, the freezer thing make no sense."

Open Carry Texas obtained a copy of the 911 call that resulted in no less than nine patrol cars and 15 officers arriving on scene. The 911 call was not made by an employee or customer inside the Jack In The Box, but by a passerby leaving a nearby Home Depot. He reported seeing armed demonstrators walking "towards" the restaurant.

"It looks I like I seen[sic] four caucasian or white men walking towards the Jack In The Box located off the highway, uh, walking with assault assault rifles and cameras just walking casually through the parking lot."

The caller later stated, "they're all wearing, you know, three of them are wearing shorts. They just, you know, dressed casually walking around casually with what looked like assault rifles."

Open Carry Texas will be releasing the 911 audio once we have been able to edit out personal identifying information later today.

 
#5 · (Edited)
I live in Pa, and have all my life, and as I have said before, when this subject has come up on this forum, I am glad that for now this is a pro gun state, with open carry, concealed carry, and stand your ground law. And I hope it stays this way. As for other states that are anything but pro gun, I would believe it would be very hard to turn things around any time soon. It is up to the sheriff in each county here to isse a LTCF, and some counties are quick in issuing the permit and some are very slow. But you still must pass the background check in any county. The sheriffs office has. 45 days to reply either way to your application. The county I live in is very quick to reply to your application. Now in regards to personal preference, I have a LTCF and I can open carry anywhere in this state, except Philadelphia, where you have to have a LTCF to even open carry. So I could there also, but someone without one could not. Now I personally do not open carry, except on hiking trails and game lands and state forests, even though I could open carry anywhere I choose to except where posted not to. I have lived in this state for 69 years, and maybe I wasn't at the right place at the right time, but in all these years I have NEVER seen anyone open carrying. I have read newspaper articles about it, but never personally seen it, and I am not against it. As far as concealed carry, I do on occasion, depending on the area I am traveling in. I mostly make use of my LTCF to keep my revolver loaded in the car while traveling from place to place in this state. To each his own. I hope I always have this freedom concerning a hand gun in this state. However it is against the law in Pa. to have a loaded long gun in a vehicle.
 
#6 ·
Where (Maine and Virginia) and when (1940s and 1950s) I grew up, open carry was rather common. BUT it was considered good form to remove said firearm when entering a populated area (town). Politeness and good manners seem to be the missing ingredients in this recent (and misguided, I believe) push for 'open carry'.
 
#7 ·
I prefer conceal carry because it leaves the bad guys wondering who's carrying and who isn't. However, there should not be any infringement if one wants to carry open or concealed, because sometimes carrying concealed is not practical.
 
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#8 ·
i would like to start a conversation regarding the rift between the to carry options.

It should be personal preference, and it is really about the 2nd Amendment after all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tDYtf_tEckSpeak your mind, but remember, we are all brothers and sisters in this fight for the Constitution!

A lot of things are personal preference, and a lot of our preferences fall within our Constitutional rights. But not all of those choices carry the same baggage. We have freedom of speech - including use of the N word, the C word, and so forth, but some speech is considered OK in polite society, and some isn't. Some speech can even get you fired, some can get you arrested. We have freedom of religion, but if you think animal sacrifice isn't going to bring outrage, you're not thinking. We have freedom of association. Whom do you respect - the crackheads, and druggies, or the doctors who work to cure them? Yeah, we have freedom of the press, but is the pornographer held in the same esteem as the great philosopher?


Here in Arizona, we have the most gun-friendly laws in the country. We enjoy Constitutional concealed carry as well as open carry. Your preference. I respect the person exercising his concealed carry option. I am annoyed and irritated at the attention whore who is open carrying a rifle in an urban environment. Slightly less so with open carry of handguns, but only slightly less. Open carry is fine (even I do it) when hiking in the wilderness (we call it the desert out here), in hunting camp, or in some other outdoorsy rural pursuit. But please, in stores, restaurants, parks, offices, wherever in else in public, carry concealed, or not at all. And no, I don't want to hear your side of it - I know all the arguments for open carry and I reject them.
 
#10 ·
I think it would be a great pleasure to open carry and never have a question asked or eyebrow raised. But I don't think it will happen in my lifetime - it hasn't happened yet and things are not looking better.

I think the constitution is clear "...shall not be infringed." but I'm not sure our forefathers ever thought "arms" might mean nuclear or chemical. So what that suggests is times have changed...sometimes laws/rules need to change perhaps even if it means the constitution needs modification.

If that needs to happen it should be by the people - not just politicians, money-bags or a selective force that isn't affected by the rules. << This rule is already in place but is not honored. This is part of the problem. If we could fix it, we might fix a lot of other issues too.

Open or concealed carry can and is being done without incident...I hope it continues.
 
#11 ·
i would like to start a conversation regarding the rift between the to carry options.

It should be personal preference, and it is really about the 2nd Amendment after all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tDYtf_tEck


Speak your mind, but remember, we are all brothers and sisters in this fight for the Constitution!
You're correct - it is about the second amendment. And open carry in areas where people are not (and never will be) accustomed to seeing firearms on non LEO's does more to HURT our second amendment rights than anything else. A high price to pay to satisfy OC'er's craving for attention.
 
#12 ·
I have to agree with all the above. As long as it's in the constitution and people have the right to buy & carry arms, how they carry them (concealed or open) should be a matter of personal choice, and the law, be it federal, state, or local, should go no further in limiting their choices.
 
#15 ·
It amazes me that this debate or argument has been around for well over 100 years. In Texas, when the Rangers were a small fledgling state operated "special force", one of the things they had to do was to assist town sheriffs in enforcing a "no carry in town law". A lot of areas of the state had no gun rules in place to try and curb outlaws and drunks and hell raisers from unnecessary use of guns to get their point across. So, the ones who wanted to have a gun on them found creative ways to carry them. As early as the 1870-1880`s laws were in place for no carry or no open carry. . I`m rereading a book about the history of the Rangers called " Wearing of the Cinco Peso" by Mike Cox. They used to,get a cinco (5) cent (peso) piece of Mexican denomination and carve their badges out of the silver coin.The 5 pointed star within a circle is still the badge worn today by the Rangers. Anyway, the argument on this is an old one. I for one like the option of open carry but I carry concealed in public, open carry when out in the wild. Here in Indiana they have open or conceled carry once you get a permit. If my shirt rides up while doing something and my revolver gets exposed, I don`t have to worry about getting thrown in jail. But I`m not one to strut around and show off to people that I carry. Like a lot of others here, it irritates the crap out of me seeing some joker strutting around with an AR claiming it`s his right to do so. John Q. Public gets nervous about seeing that happen. Hell, I get nervous seeing someone do that. To me it`s a matter of common courtesy. Kinda like spitting on the floor, it just ain`t right.
 
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#16 ·
It all come back to common courtesy and having at least some respect for your fellow Americans. For better or for worse, there are a lot of people out there who fear all guns and who also fear us for carrying them. You cannot force your lifestyle choices on another person. It's just not right.

So every once in a while a 2nd Amendment fringe advocate decides to make a YouTube video to show off how clever he is and how well he knows the law so he struts around in public with an AR on his back demanding that he has the right to carry it and everyone else has to accept it. I wonder how open minded this guy would be if a flamboyant, openly gay person strutted around in front of him dressed in all rainbow colors, making out with his or her partner, and demanding that it is their right and that every one else has to accept it. Yes both the 2nd Amendment activist and the gay activist are both technically right, but shouldn't they both have enough respect for each other to stay out of each others' way?

These AR toting wackos make me embarrassed to be a gun owner and they are a very big reason why I prefer to conceal carry as opposed to open carry. I don't want to be associated with them.
 
#17 ·
In MO, we are both. In the small towns and country I open carry sometimes, but the bigger cities and counties frown on it and the cops may even stop you and question you at least that's what I have seen on the news. I mainly CCW because of respect for the over reactive libs, don't want the trouble from the libtards.
 
#18 ·
We had a 19 year old jack ass in San Antone decide to go out walking in town with his AR. Several neighbors called the police, some said he pointed the rifle at them. When the cops showed up, the first cop told him to turn his ass around, take his weapon home and leave it there. The boy decided he wanted to argue his rights instead of following the cop's instructions. Then a police sergeant showed up and asked if the gun was loaded - it was. He told the boy to lay the gun on the ground and step away from it. The boy refused, arguing about his rights. So he was arrested. Texas allows open carry of rifles, San Antonio does not. The state is working to have all municipal laws changed to allign with those of the state. Of course this dillwad, pushed things to the extreme. State law supersedes municipal law, but disobeying a police officer performing his job, pointing a weapon at neighbors and being a PITA gave the cops all the justification they needed to arrest the little POS. San Antonio must be getting more progressive. Twenty years ago they would have shot a clown for holding a loaded weapon and refusing to put it down when directed to do so by the cops. Of course his actions are only going to make it that much harder to line up state legislators to push open carry at the next session.
 
#19 ·
Open carry of a handgun can be done without arousing too much fear and loathing. A small holster on a belt is not very exciting, but these loons who simply must carry their "tacticool" rifles and shotguns around as if that was their EDC drive even gun freaks like me over the edge. Why can't these demonstrators exercise their 2A rights with some discretion, with some sensitivity, with some common sense. The law allows for cars with 74 HP 4 cylinder engines as well as 600 HP V12 engines, but they must be muffled and they both must be driven within socially acceptable limits. I know, driving is a privilege and keeping and bearing arms is a right, but even so, some discretion is called for.
Open carry in urban settings for handguns only might be a reasonable compromise - and even though I hate that word - it might be the best Texans can hope for at this point.
 
#20 ·
"in your face" type actions..........such OC stunts sort of remind me of westboro baptist church........designed to bring attention while wrapping one's self up in the flag and saying it is constitutional and their "right"...........same book just a different page..........


OC proponents had best pay attention on the tactics or they may very well find that while they may be "right", they may end up alienating public support by their methods. That means votes, and that means trouble..........
 
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#22 ·
Wow, all good points and opinions and I thank you, alow me to play devils advocate for a minute.

To kcox's post "You cannot force your lifestyle choices on another person. It's just not right"
My opinion to that is, that is just whats happening to the Open Carry's, works both ways.

to the posts with negative opinions of the AR's, my opinion is, Carry on, they carry those because the can not OC a handgun, and most feel they can not be forced to pay fees for something that is a right ie CCW. Once you are forced to do that, you have admitted to the gov. that it is now a privilege and no longer a right.

When you give in and start thinking just because someone is scared and or offended, you can take the right away... congrats your a LIBERAL

JMHO
 
#25 ·
When you give in and start thinking just because someone is scared and or offended, you can take the right away... congrats your a LIBERAL
We have the right in the first place so that we can turn out with our own weapons to form a militia when needed. What part of that means we should walk in the mall displaying a loaded AR just to piss people off and get yourself attention and views on a youtube video? That is just plain stupid, at the very least. And anyone who walks with an AR cocked and locked has already proved he's an idiot, and should be arrested for unsafe misuse of an otherwise allowed tool, such that he presents a risk of deadly injury to himself and others.

If you thought that you could come to any random gun board and spout your nonsense and get some attaboys, you should have first checked for the presence of grown-ups. We do have a few of those here, and we take guns and rights seriously. You and your buddies take it as a joke, but we here are not laughing. Can't you tell? Or are you already gone? This a hit and run? You from Bloomberg? I'd bet we never hear from you again.
 
#23 ·
You evidently missed the posts about common courtesy. Also, if they can afford an AR then they can afford a handgun.
 
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#24 ·
Liberal....hummm strong word on a gun board and brave word from behind a computer:yesnod1:
 
#27 ·
And we all have the right to act like idiots, which is, in this case, the right to take actions that threaten the rights of others. Gotta give you credit JYD, for standing your ground when it is obvious that you are completely wrong. Do you recognize that regular people have the right to not be terrorized by a foolish and selfish kid with a gun?
 
#33 ·
Can You quote the amendment or anywhere in the Constitution that says, if you might scare people, you can not excersise your right to self defence in the ONLY way you can??

I again can quote one for my point, it was also cited in Heller, and is the 2nd Amendment, and I quote;

State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann. 489, 490 (1850), the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens had a right to carry arms openly: “This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations.”” – US Supreme Court – District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)
 
#28 ·
FWIW, I was once stopped for open carry. This is how an adult deals with it. You may learn something. I was carrying a .44 mag revolver in a full flap holster, mounted crossdraw, walking Mrs Brewster's Shih Tzu in the late afternoon. A neighbor was frightened, apparently, and phoned 911. LEO arrives. A noobie, he is not happy either. He tells me to put the gun on the hood of his car. It would have been stupid to resist, so I complied, belt and all, so as not to scare him by drawing the piece from the leather. In a few minutes his superior arrived, gave me back the Redhawk, and I was on my way. Next morning I went to the neighbor's house, introduced myself, and she gave me a cup of coffee. Now she feels safer when she sees me walking the cur. That will not get me any views on youtube, but it sure makes me more of a man than the idiot in that video you posted, and it got us one more friend, rather than many enemies.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Good for you, although i have spoken to about 50 residents of my city, who now have more knowledge and respect for the 2nd Amendment, all due to the conversation starting from an empty holster. And they did not have to call the police, THEY came up to me and asked. I refuse to push info on people, but the empty holster intrigues them, and they thirst for knowledge.:lol:
 
#30 ·
Lets just say if I'm sitting in a cafe having breakfast with my Wife, and some good conservative gun owner walks in with a loaded AR15. And lets say he waves (accidentally or otherwise) that AR in the direction of my Wife - he's going to die. Probably by me: unless one of the many local CCW owners in the area react quicker than I do. I guess that would make him dead right, and me a live gun toting liberal - huh??
 
#31 ·
I am actually a pretty big oc advocate. But with all things discression is often needed. When I was in NC I oced all the time. I don't like the idea of having to get a permit to excersize a constitutional right.

Did that mean I had a SASR slung across my back when I went out? No. I just very calmly oced my 1911. I did not go to oc lunches. And I made sure to be able to calmly and correctly explain to people why I carried. 99% of the time I had good experiences with curious people. On occasion I had bad experiences with LEOs. But as I was in the right and was able to remain calm I always walked away from the encounter.
 
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