22 TCM round. Here to stay? - Page 2
Advertise with us Click for Rates
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18
Like Tree10Likes

Thread: 22 TCM round. Here to stay?

  1. #11
    Aim true ! NGF Addict! Coalcracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pa. Coal twp.
    Posts
    8,315

    Default

    Thanks for the reply. Nice one too. I did pick up a used 9mm RIA 1911. The mag was not activating the slide stop. RIA was nice and sent me a new one. Can't argue with that.
    surevaliance likes this.
    Member of
    NRA
    GOA
    Firearms Owners Against Crime


    "A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box"

  2. #12
    Senior Member NGF Addict! surevaliance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    1,073

    Default

    Hmm... Interesting one...
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Last edited by surevaliance; 09-26-2019 at 11:10 AM.
    There are those who hate 2nd Amendment and vote for Democrats, and those who are not convicted felons.Hidden Content

    Hidden Content

    armed = unharmed
    or
    unarmed = harmed
    You choose one for yourself

  3. #13
    Aim true ! NGF Addict! Coalcracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pa. Coal twp.
    Posts
    8,315

    Default

    I could have got one for 500 OTD.
    Member of
    NRA
    GOA
    Firearms Owners Against Crime


    "A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box"

  4. Remove Advertisements
    NationalGunForum.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by surevaliance View Post
    Hmm... Interesting one...
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    Paul Harrell limits his review to over the counter ammo, however if you look at alternative loads the 5.7x28 jumps much higher up the food chain. My own hand loads push a Speer 40gr. spire point at just under 2,000fps which is basically equal to the .22TCM. A bullet the TCM can't use is the Barnes 45gr. TSX. Loaded in 5.7x28 it breaks 1,800fps - this with an all-copper "poor man's penetrator" that has been demonstrated to go through TL3A at 1,600fps (Brass Fetcher).

    The reason for the penetration ability of the .224" is the result of kinetic energy per unit of cross-section area. While nose design certain can enhance or detract from penetration, the major limiting factor is how large of a hole the bullet must create to pass through any given material. Thus, a pointy-nose 9mm is still going to lag behind a JHP .22TCM because one the nose has fractured the material, it still has to open up a rather large hole - comparatively speaking.

    For example: The .22TCM is capable of generating a "Pfac" (penetration factor) of 13-15. This is based on a cross-section area of 25mm2. The 9mm generally averages a Pfac = 5-6. This is due a CSA of 64mm2. Even the 7.62x25 Tokarev - which has it's own following, has a Pfac around 10 based on CSA of 49mm2. With the right bullet, weight, and velocity, the Tokarev can equal the .22TCM for Pfac, but this is of course at the expense of a generally heavier gun with less capacity and more recoil. When comparing the RIA 1911 variants of the .22TCM the difference seems minimal, but when the .22TCM is repackaged into a Glock 19 as the .22TCM9R, the difference is glaring. The G19 weighs 22 ounces, and holds 16 rounds standard capacity, with more possible, versus a converted 1911 or surplus Tokarev that weigh close to double while holding about half as many shots.

    Pfac gets even worse for calibers such as the .45 ACP, .38Spl and yes, even the .357 magnum with expanding bullets. Granted, the 9mm and .357M can be made to defeat body armor by using special bullet loads, but this isn't anything anyone is buying from any retailers I know of, whereas the TCM performance is delivered by garden variety OTC ammo.

    These are things to think about in a world where bad people are increasing showing up with body armor. I read a lot of comments about how the 5.7 or .22TCM might go through a vest then act like a "needle" and do no damage on the other side. People who makes such comments haven't done any research before hand. As seen in the Paul Harrel video, once through the Kevlar, the .22 bottlenecks create impressive damage.

  6. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Armscor .22TCM factory load gel test.

    .22 TCM factory load gel test
    LRDGCO likes this.

  7. #16
    Aim true ! NGF Addict! Coalcracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pa. Coal twp.
    Posts
    8,315

    Default

    I wonder how steel core ammo does against body armor. I discovered my Tula 7.62x54r ammo is copper jacketed steel.
    Member of
    NRA
    GOA
    Firearms Owners Against Crime


    "A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box"

  8. #17
    Senior Member NGF Addict! flphotog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Clearwater,FL
    Posts
    1,388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coalcracker View Post
    Im still waiting for Glock to build a 1911. Don't think it will happen though.
    I wouldn't go anywhere near a 1911 made by block
    Member COTEP CBOB0772, NRA, GOA, Florida Carry

  9. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coalcracker View Post
    I wonder how steel core ammo does against body armor. I discovered my Tula 7.62x54r ammo is copper jacketed steel.
    I'm pretty sure steel core 7.62x25 will penetrate TL3A more often than not, and if somebody made a steel core, copper jacketed bullet with a conical nose profile it would defeat it 100%.

    Once you meet a given velocity threshold nose design becomes less important as shown in the video below. The .22TCM with 40gr. JHP defeats TL3A 100% even with a huge amount of exposed nose lead. On the other hand, the 5.7x28 with a "pointy" nose bullet (Vmax) is 100% stopped by the vest and this is due to a couple of things, primarily the bullet is going too slow, and secondarily the polymer nose lacks the support be an efficient "penetrator". Now, if someone could reproduce those tiny polymer tops in steel, the Vmax would be one seriously bad round - going fast enough that is.

    If one wanted to invest the time, almost any bullet could be adapted to a steel penetrator but the reality is few will ever need such a round. Since I load my own, I like the Speer 40gr. SP in TCM and 5.7 because it's got a thicker jacket and tiny nose and is inexpensive. For the 5.7 I like the Barnes 45gr. TSX loaded around 1,800 fps.


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Search tags for this page

    22 tcm here to stay

    Click on a term to search for related topics.