National Gun Forum banner

This Is Why....

5K views 49 replies 18 participants last post by  Siplace 
#1 ·
Judge rejects 'stand your ground' in Curtis Reeves case, pushing case toward trial | TBO.com

...one should NEVER talk with LEO's at the scene, just state that you were in fear of your (or someone else's) life, used your weapon to STOP THE THREAT, then say nothing more until they have completed their initial investigation, and you'll respond to any further questions, with your attorney present at time of questioning.

This man is a retired LEO captain, and still was foolish enough to make the following statement to investigators at the scene: (In addition, prosecutors played audio of Reeves talking to detectives shortly after the shooting) "As soon as I pulled the trigger I said, 'Oh shoot, that was stupid.' If I had to do it over again, it would have never happened," he said. "If I had to do it over again, it would never have happened. I wouldn't have moved. But you don't get do-overs."

The SYG law is only as good as your own knowledge of how it is meant to be used, and your own capability to just keep your damn mouth shut, until you have legal representation present during any questioning...

Now he stands trial for 2d homicide, and if he gets a jury that doesn't like him, he'll likely spend the balance of his life in a state prison.

Be forewarned, be aware, and be assured that if you pull that trigger, there will always be consequences regardless of how 'right' you were in doing so...

FLc
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Miranda says "Everything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law"
 
#4 ·
Funny though that when they read you your rights, it's all about ways to convict you if you open your mouth and ways to defend you when (not if) we procecute you in a court of herm! law as if you were already tagged criminal
 
#5 ·
He is under house arrest, he wears an ankle monitor. BUT, he is allowed to go to church, he is allowed to go to Publix, he is allowed to go to all his doctors. This guy is walking free, and he will not likely serve any time in jail, because he is old. He never pulled the trigger while in law enforcement, guess he didn't want to leave this world without doing it at least once.
 
#6 ·
Surveillance footage shows Oulson grabbed a bag of popcorn and threw it at Reeves' face. An instant later, Reeves drew a gun from his pocket and fired.

Oh my!
 
  • Like
Reactions: SGB
#8 ·
Fear is in the eye of the frightened - what triggers that emotion in some may be inconsequential to others, the reasonableness of the feeling at the time is a finding of fact for the jury.

Our college snowflakes, defensive of their safe spaces, become so fearful of a conservative speaker appearing on their campus that simply scheduling such a thing drives them mad - far beyond stand your ground - even to mob violence, burning cars, breaking windows, attacking police officers, rioting and looting. Certainly a face full of hot buttered popcorn can be considered equally provocative. Like I said, it's a finding of fact for the jury.
 
#9 ·
The throwing popcorn in his face constitutes assault. Assault is the threat of greater harm. How often does somebody do something like this to begin battery? It is assault.
The man is old. Don't tell me he can fight and his body repairs damage easily. Even if he wins, he loses.
The defense goofed up. This was an autonomic reaction to assault.
 
#10 ·
I'm on the wrong side of this I guess. I think they got it right. You CAN NOT shoot someone that throws a bag of popcorn at you. Period. Popcorn is not a deadly weapon or deadly force.
This is type of situation that anti-gunners just love to get a hold of and use to further their agenda.
The retired LEO belongs in jail more so than a civilian as he has had many hours of training to deal with situations like this. He knows better.

Had the bag of popcorn been a knife....different story.
You cant shoot someone for throwing popcorn at you no more than you can shoot someone for hitting you with a marshmallow.

As an aside I fully agree with keeping your mouth shut and not saying a word. It's the best way to protect oneself.
 
#12 ·
Replace the bag of popcorn with soda or ashes or sand, you know why someone would do that; to blind you or yes, distract you before attacking you..
I'm not defending this guy; his post shooting statement don't match up. Lying burns all credibility, including the truth and the facts. Now consider what it would take for you to throw something at a retirement age guy with his wife? There seems to be a propensity for violence on both ends.
#1 Notify management to handle it right now, as you are missing your $15 movie. If they don't or won't, get up, go get a refund and come back for the next showing on the house.
 
#14 ·
Btw the theater has a no firearms policy. I go there and when I do the COD stays in the car or at home. He was using his retired LEO status to skirt the rule. The likelihood of anyone else carrying was very low. SYG did not apply here, the victim had the same SYG right as the shooter. I have heard that they plan to appeal this ruling in order to keep him out of jail longer. That appeal would take almost a year and then 1 to 2 to schedule the trial so it could be 3 years before he sees actual prison.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Yeah...when popcorn starts flying it can be deadly.

Nope..this is abuse and misuse of the "Stand your ground" law. I would agree with therewolf.

This brings something else to mind.

Defense lawyers claim they are doing their job but like in this case the judge hammers them for good reasons. The defense lawyers are not doing a job to see that the person gets a fair trial but to get off completely and not charged with a crime. There is a big difference. The judge sees their actions and points out the inconsistencies between the surveillance video, witnesses remarks and the story told by Reeves.

There needs to be some disciplinary actions against lawyers who ignore the correct assessment and not just fight against the ones who are the real victims of the matter -- in this case the guy who was shot.
 
#18 ·
We all watched as Zimmerman was raked over the coals for shooting young Travon as he was bashing his head on the concrete. I don't think a jury will view popcorn in the same way at all. But I think Mr Reeves knows this because he said so.

Alan
 
#19 ·
Just a quick followup, then I'll shut up about this....


In this state, there is statutory law regarding assault/battery on any senior citizen that makes it a felony... I can see that there's several good points on both sides of his guilt or innocence ...and minds are pretty much already made up


Popcorn ain't a deadly weapon, but what COULD have been a followup to the throwing of it might have been... The 'victim' was several years younger, and a very large man, so I would have to have given the benefit of doubt to the shooter... Along with the fact that I personally hate a f'n bully, I'd have also included the fact that he was not only protecting himself, but his wife as well....


My Zhills neighbor may leave his piece at home when going to a movie, his choice and I respect that...I however go NOWHERE that I'm not armed....Other then areas where I am restricted BY LAW to not carry, and I usually avoid those if at all possible. But movie theaters, restaurants, and even the local Walmart aren't included in those, even if posted. At most if you are noticed for whatever reason, they can only ask you to leave their property, if you refuse, then 'criminal trespass' kicks in.


Given the same situation, I would not have at the point of the popcorn throwing, used the same force, but I still believe that if he'd only kept silent until he had council present, the SYG outcome might have been different... I believe he erroneously thought that by being 'on the job' all those years, made him automatically immune and free of worry about prosecution. Bad mistake(s)...all the way around.


OTOH, this event might finally answer for once and all the question: “Is a .380 enough gun for SD carry?”


FLc
 
#21 · (Edited)
FL and TX penal codes pretty close. Along with regular expected use of deadly force provisions/reliefs from prosecution, mine even includes use to recover Property...with special provisions after dark.....do you wanna face the "reasonable" deciding jury after shooting a kid with your hubcaps ?...I'm disabled, use 8+ pound solid cane but I can still be lethal with my hands/elbows. Deadly force in penal codes is not limited to firearms. Blows to the head constitute use of...will still have ti pass "reasonable" query...box of popcorn...no matter how heavily ladened with butter and salt, will not. A bad argument can happen to anybody. You cannot...cannot touch that trigger until last resort. Period. He lost it during the incident...just as if he looked away driving and hit a kid on bike. He lost it. He may have been a great officer. Great officers get killed most often when walking to a car door and not thinking. They lost it. Can happen to any of us if we dont have mind set when armed. And theres not enough discussion here about civil liabilities. I thank God for our Govt. Code preventing civil suits if a good shoot, but you can and will be sued by anybody for anything they can. Point?...ok..ok...popcorn lethal weapon now, case closed. Now civil trial....? Win criminal case...civil easy right ? Ask O.J. Yes, keep replies minimum to authorities. But no record of bad decisions does not make those actions right. Deadly Force=Last Result. Some people should not land F18's on flight decks, some people should not carry a firearm.
EDIT: And a note on civil cases in a lot of jurisdictions, you dont have same burdens as criminal cases. If they only have to prove " you caused "...thats enough for some juries. When I got to civil liabilities areas "as furnished and required" in my class, I had one woman once, and one man later, quit class and I gave them refund though didnt have to. Was glad to. Some shouldnt carry....and some will make a mistake when they do.
 
#20 ·
I'm going to guess that any one of us, after reporting the problem to the management would have, if we were carrying, removed ourselves from the immediate area of the problem and not gone back in to continue the argument. At least I would have done that.

Personally, I would not want to try and convince a jury that a bag of popcorn had caused me to fear for my life and killed someone regardless of what might have happened. I don't think it would fly.

Alan
 
#22 ·
Stand your ground can not be used if you are a party to the aggression. Just what did the shooter do to provoke the deadly popcorn attack? So the shooting victim was texting. It was during the previews of coming attractions. Are those reviews worth another mans life? The shooter was just throwing his weight around and used SYG to justify his act of murder.

I've read that the shooter already had his gun in hand just waiting for a chance to use it.
 
#23 ·
This was only a pre trial hearing. Defense attempt to get this dismissed on the grounds of SYG law. That's all. Now he goes on trial for this.

I only presented what I thought the Defense attorney goofed up on. I did not present my opinion. Throwing anything at all in someone's face is a distraction to attack.

What I think personally? It would have never gotten anywhere near that far. I would have probably moved in the first place. Not even said anything because I know so many are idiots who only want conflict. Especially if I'm carrying.
 
#25 ·
Throwing popcorn in someones face as a distraction for an attack is just what everyone thinks, right? That tactic is not on everyone's mind. I am sure there was not going to be an attack after the distraction, it was probably purely frustration. Maybe gang members who go around killing their buddies everyday might think of "throwing a distraction", a guy watching a movie with his wife is probably not thinking "Hey! I'll throw popcorn at this *******, and then I'll jump him with a knife". It's absurd to read that into this situation.
 
#26 ·
Well popcorn has salt in it and it can sting your eyes....Seriously Speed nailed it a couple of pages back, this is not a case of assault with deadly popcorn no matter how you try to spin it. Unfortunately the guy was wrong and I'm sure any sane judge and jury will see it the same way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Speed and 1shot1k
#29 ·
Marvelous how so many are so quick to hindsight, second-guess and Monday-morning-quarterback this event. And before anyone has heard a single sworn witness give testimony and be cross examined, and before even a single exhibit has been entered into evidence.

If I am ever on trial for my life, I hope I don't have jurors who have already tried my case in the press and pre-judged my guilt. Pretty scary.
 
#31 ·
Despite what we have been told ...... don't pick up the phone and dial 911. After defending your home, stop and compose your thoughts and composure first. Then call your attorney, explain what happened and let your attorney call 911 for you.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top