Wag, I understand. Most of my voting has been for the lesser of evils or simply against the worst candidate. Those with full time jobs have little time for marching on Washington with pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers.

Perhaps we are going to have to allocate some time for such things though or our elected officials are going to simply continue with business as usual. We need to get a group in that will legislate term limits and put some type of REAL recall things in place so we can address crooked politics more readily.

There are a great number of issues that simply should not ever be addressed by government. Most regulatory legislation is in response to special interest groups that have elected "their man" to address their issues. Capitalism regulates itself in the marketplace. By cutting out most of what Government dabbles in today we can they rely on them to represent US. They criteria should be that the politician prescribes to the Constitution of the US and not because they pass themselves off as some kind of social panacea for the masses.

Every time I hear about the president or the congress needing to create jobs, I cringe and get the desire to strangle something. If I were President I would create jobs by ending welfare and asking congress to strike every damn pice of regulatory legislation inhibiting business from growing and providing jobs to be had. I would ask them to pass legislation prohibiting collective bargaining practices which place Labor Unions in the driver's seat in business operations. Unions should concern themselves with benefits and protections for their members in regards to insurance and pensions and not with pay scales when quality issues are at stake. I would create jobs by getting Government out of the business business.

I probably won't be President without a civil war, and then I would only be president over a very small area.

Alan

Originally Posted by GregM

I want a civil war

I don't want war of any sort. I've been to war. I didn't like war. I was good at war but I hated it.

Originally Posted by Popeye

I don't want war of any sort. I've been to war. I didn't like war. I was good at war but I hated it.

I understand and agree.

I had a bad experience at a polling place in Illinois in my early yrs. I didn't vote for the next 20 yrs. I felt my vote didn't count, nor did my rights, my needs or wants. In a word, I felt I was disenfranchised. I still feel that way, however I do vote now. The system is definitely broken, with little chance of ever being fixed.
I find myself in agreement with most of those on this and other similar forums I frequent. That we are in the minority is pretty evident by the direction of political winds. I can only hope that I live to see a shift in the wind.

Originally Posted by Wag

I take issue with this figure. There are about 310 million Americans now, give or take a million. That includes all men, women and children. Half of those people are NOT gun owners.

There are likely 150 million guns but I estimate that they are in the hands of 50-60 million at best. The NRA has just over 4 million members but it likely represents a small percentage of gun owners today.

Those figures are just off the top of my head and need to be validated.

Having said all of that, though, it's still a VERY significant number of guns and gun owners and it's still critical that a guy with multiple firearms can easily arm his friends and neighbors. :-)

I understand your skepticism. I really do. Yeah it is hard to get accurate numbers and ya really have to dig hard to find reliable ones. The anti gunners say there are about four hundred million guns but only about twenty percent of Americans legally own guns. The NRA claims between fifty five and sixty percent legally own guns and state that there are about three hundred million legal guns. If you look at the numbers of background checks and bounce them off the more neutral polls you come up with about two hundred and eighty million legally purchase firearms in the hands of legal owners, and about forty five percent of Americans being legal gun owners.
I kinda rounded the numbers and came up with a hundred and fifty million. Regardless of the poll, you never (least from what I've found, excluding those from orginizations that have something to proove) come up with fewer than two hundred million guns and 90 million gun owners. Hell the Small Arms Survey of 2007 says that there are 88.8 guns per 100 residents, but those numbers include legally owned as well as illegally gotten.

Florida by itself has almost a million people with concealed carry permits. And there are an estimated six to ten million concealed carry holders in the U.S.

Already, the cops and military are outnumbered just by those who have CCWs.

But yeah. I agree with ya. Be it sixty million gun owners or a hundred million. The gov would be seriously outnumbered. And no I do not want a civil war. I've done war. It sucks and I don't want to do it again. But if something doesn't change I can see war coming.

It's one thing to say something about having a civil war. Quite another to be willing to pay the cost of it. Money is the least of it. Suffering is the most of it.

As our forefathers said, though, occasionally, we have to repurchase our freedoms with blood. I continually hope they are wrong. I continually see that they may have been right.

--Wag--

Originally Posted by Wag

It's one thing to say something about having a civil war. Quite another to be willing to pay the cost of it. Money is the least of it. Suffering is the most of it.

As our forefathers said, though, occasionally, we have to repurchase our freedoms with blood. I continually hope they are wrong. I continually see that they may have been right.

--Wag--

Our Forefathers were Correct,it may be our time to refresh the Tree of Freedom. We either live Free or we Die. Something to think about.

Originally Posted by KentuckyHiker

You know, when I was in the Army, I took a survey back in the early 90's that had some questions concerning this subject. I cant remember the wording, but some of the questions were along the lines of how I would feel about having to shoot American citizens during civil unrest, and if I would follow "lawful" orders along those lines. I remember thinking this was an odd survey and always wondered what was being done with this info? I answered no on most of the questions, as I felt that being an American soldier, my duty is to America and her citizens. Not to some politician who wants control and using the military as his pawns in some evil scheme. So I believe that if something happened, most soldiers would not engage citizens. Especially knowing that most soldiers are gun fanatics as well and love and support the 2nd amendment!! You might be surprised what would happen with the military if some crazy politician did indeed try to emplace a total weapons ban on the citizens.

There are oath keepers in the military and in the civilian police as well as officers in the federal government FBI, CIA, etc. that are oath keepers. Put simply oath keepers are individuals that take their oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all aggressors both foreign and DOMESTIC literally. The order to shoot American civilians is unlawful under any circumstances. There is a law called Posse Commetus (sp) That forbids the use of the US Military against American civilians in the United States.

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester


edited by staff for content.

Originally Posted by eaglesnester

There is a law called Posse Commetus (sp) That forbids the use of the US Military against American civilians in the United States.

...and we'all know how much respect the anointed one has for our constitution, or our laws.... none. In some parts of this country, If you should stand defenseless behind the Posse Comitatus Act, you'll likely die.

Originally Posted by Jay

...and we'all know how much respect the anointed one has for our constitution, or our laws.... none. In some parts of this country, If you should stand defenseless behind the Posse Comitatus Act, you'll likely die.

Then so be it. enough said